.hardware
Member
first off i wanted to say hi to everyone, im knew to the forum and from what i have read so far it seems like a great place!
as i said im new to rangefinders and was hoping for a little advice on purchasing my first RF. i am however not new to photography, im familiar with the usual slr and dslr setups. rangefinders have always interested me tho and i have decided to further my interest!
i guess im looking for something decent to start me off with, i dont need the best gear but something that will still take a nice photo. i would in an ideal world buy something i could grow with, maybe upgrade as i go. and of course all this without breaking the bank.
thanks in advance
as i said im new to rangefinders and was hoping for a little advice on purchasing my first RF. i am however not new to photography, im familiar with the usual slr and dslr setups. rangefinders have always interested me tho and i have decided to further my interest!
i guess im looking for something decent to start me off with, i dont need the best gear but something that will still take a nice photo. i would in an ideal world buy something i could grow with, maybe upgrade as i go. and of course all this without breaking the bank.
thanks in advance
ZeissFan
Veteran
Ah, the eternal quest. The best camera for the least amount of cash.
You probably should give your budget: $50, $100, $150, etc. That will help in the recommendations, although eventually you'll be persuaded by someone here to purchase an expensive Leica.
You probably should give your budget: $50, $100, $150, etc. That will help in the recommendations, although eventually you'll be persuaded by someone here to purchase an expensive Leica.
.hardware
Member
I suppose I should have, I guess around the 100-200 range would be ideal. I can be persuaded tho, if no one thinks I can get something decent for that price I may have to reconsider the budget. But spending 1000+ is dedinitly out of the question for my first RF
Livesteamer
Well-known
For low cost go to fedka.com and buy a Zorki 4 or Fed 2 with a lens for $75 or $100 and buy a simple light meter to go with it. It's rough, cheap equipment but it can yield excellent results and give you a taste of the range finder experience for not much money. Fedka checks his cameras so they should work. Buying Russian cameras elsewhere can be risky. Good Luck. Joe
coelacanth
Ride, dive, shoot.
I'd go with Olympus, Canon or Yashica RF with good fixed lens. They can be had for quite low price, and many of them have great lenses. Once you get used to RF system and shooting style, you can upgrade to Bessa, Zeiss Ikon or Leica that you can't explore different lenses.
Problem with the entry level RF that I listed above is that it could be hard and tricky to get a good working unit without some help. It's really hit and miss. To avoid unnecessary hustle with potential problems, jump on to a good condition used Bessa body with M mount. You can get one about $400 or sometimes less if you are patient. Then get a cheap (yet often pretty good) lens like Russian or classic Japanese one. You can get Leica screw mount lens and use adapter to put it on to M mount body.
If you ultimately decide RF isn't for you, you can easily bailout by selling the kit at the same price you paid. If you feel you are hooked, get some new lens and continue using the Bessa body till you really want something else.
Problem with the entry level RF that I listed above is that it could be hard and tricky to get a good working unit without some help. It's really hit and miss. To avoid unnecessary hustle with potential problems, jump on to a good condition used Bessa body with M mount. You can get one about $400 or sometimes less if you are patient. Then get a cheap (yet often pretty good) lens like Russian or classic Japanese one. You can get Leica screw mount lens and use adapter to put it on to M mount body.
If you ultimately decide RF isn't for you, you can easily bailout by selling the kit at the same price you paid. If you feel you are hooked, get some new lens and continue using the Bessa body till you really want something else.
-doomed-
film is exciting
From someone who has upgraded from a canonet to a BESSA R2A to a Leica M3 to an M4-P ,save and go for a Voigtlander.
The Voigtlander range of products are probably the best bang for the buck, cameraquest has enough info to help you make a decision to get the one that will work best for you.
The Voigtlander range of products are probably the best bang for the buck, cameraquest has enough info to help you make a decision to get the one that will work best for you.
Juan Valdenebro
Truth is beauty
The Olympus XA is a marvelous camera. I use it with total confidence though I use cameras and lenses in several formats from Arca Swiss, Hasselblad, Nikon, Voigtländer and Leica.
The great XA was designed by one of the most famous camera designers in photography history, and he made it after lots of experience and success with other camera lines he made previously.
That camera has allowed me to capture some images I couldn't have captured with any other camera... It's the smallest 35mm rangefinder, has autoexposure and a great 35mm lens, and you set the aperture manually, so you control the amount of depth of field... You can use it wide open at f/2.8 and focus with the classic rangefinder patch, or you can keep it prefocused at 8 feet with a small aperture so you can use it without focusing becuse everything will be on focus: that's how I use it always. You can get one for 50-100 bucks... Mine has a vanishing patch: I don't use it at all, but I can focus with it even if it's not very contrasty... The camera is light and can be placed in places as small as a shirt pocket... The lens is well protected, and whenever you want a shot, you just slide its protector and it's ready to shoot without any delay. Uses common and cheap SR44 button cells... Athough I never use flash and I didn't buy it, there's a small flash that was made for the camera, if you're interested... It has also a soundcheck to know if the battery is OK, and even a button for more exposure when you photograph someone in a backlight situation... You won't find any other camera like this... Ah, very important: is quieter than any Leica... If you shoot next to someone in absolute silence and you wait before advancing the film, no one can hear it: not even yourself!
Here's a link from Stephen Gandy's huge site cameraquest.com:
http://cameraquest.com/xa4.htm
I don't see much reason to use any other fixed lens camera instead of the XA, because they're bigger and most of them without Auto Exposure... For that "next level" size, I'd recommend you to go right into the interchangeable lenses rangefinders, like Bessas and Leicas... ($1000 and above for camera/lens).
The XA is a marvelous camera. Its price is a miracle: the reason is the amazing amount of them that were built and sold.
Here you have two with flash included:
http://www.keh.com/Camera/format-35...-Cameras?s=1&bcode=OM&ccode=4&cc=79321&r=WG&f
Unless you buy here from a member who tells you the camera is working well, I recommend you to buy it from KEH and avoid ebay...
If someday I drop mine and it gets hurt, I'll buy another one immediately... I'll shoot XA's until I die... It's the most enjoyable and controllable camera in the smallest package...
Cheers,
Juan
EDIT: It has self timer and tripod socket too. It has a special sensitive shutter (really great) that fires at the slightest touch to avoid camera shake: it's electromagnetic, so you shouldn't place any magnet near the shutter because it could be damaged... As everything related to the XA, the great thing is that you can always find another one for little money... But if the camera cost a lot more, everybody would dream of it and pay for it...
The great XA was designed by one of the most famous camera designers in photography history, and he made it after lots of experience and success with other camera lines he made previously.
That camera has allowed me to capture some images I couldn't have captured with any other camera... It's the smallest 35mm rangefinder, has autoexposure and a great 35mm lens, and you set the aperture manually, so you control the amount of depth of field... You can use it wide open at f/2.8 and focus with the classic rangefinder patch, or you can keep it prefocused at 8 feet with a small aperture so you can use it without focusing becuse everything will be on focus: that's how I use it always. You can get one for 50-100 bucks... Mine has a vanishing patch: I don't use it at all, but I can focus with it even if it's not very contrasty... The camera is light and can be placed in places as small as a shirt pocket... The lens is well protected, and whenever you want a shot, you just slide its protector and it's ready to shoot without any delay. Uses common and cheap SR44 button cells... Athough I never use flash and I didn't buy it, there's a small flash that was made for the camera, if you're interested... It has also a soundcheck to know if the battery is OK, and even a button for more exposure when you photograph someone in a backlight situation... You won't find any other camera like this... Ah, very important: is quieter than any Leica... If you shoot next to someone in absolute silence and you wait before advancing the film, no one can hear it: not even yourself!
Here's a link from Stephen Gandy's huge site cameraquest.com:
http://cameraquest.com/xa4.htm
I don't see much reason to use any other fixed lens camera instead of the XA, because they're bigger and most of them without Auto Exposure... For that "next level" size, I'd recommend you to go right into the interchangeable lenses rangefinders, like Bessas and Leicas... ($1000 and above for camera/lens).
The XA is a marvelous camera. Its price is a miracle: the reason is the amazing amount of them that were built and sold.
Here you have two with flash included:
http://www.keh.com/Camera/format-35...-Cameras?s=1&bcode=OM&ccode=4&cc=79321&r=WG&f
Unless you buy here from a member who tells you the camera is working well, I recommend you to buy it from KEH and avoid ebay...
If someday I drop mine and it gets hurt, I'll buy another one immediately... I'll shoot XA's until I die... It's the most enjoyable and controllable camera in the smallest package...
Cheers,
Juan
EDIT: It has self timer and tripod socket too. It has a special sensitive shutter (really great) that fires at the slightest touch to avoid camera shake: it's electromagnetic, so you shouldn't place any magnet near the shutter because it could be damaged... As everything related to the XA, the great thing is that you can always find another one for little money... But if the camera cost a lot more, everybody would dream of it and pay for it...
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Fawley
Well-known
I think it depends whether you want to have a built in light meter or not. Of course many of the older rangefinders are meterless. My first rangefinder, 3 or 4 years ago, was a Canon GIII QL 17 which has metered automatic or unmetered manual. I still use it a lot and it was an excellent starter rangefinder. Small and light enough to fit in your pocket. 40 mm lense which is a nice size.
kshapero
South Florida Man
I found a Yashica RF for about $50. It was sweet. Long gone. Took it to Japan in '84. Shoot slides.
.hardware
Member
hey, thanks everyone for the good advice. im still weighing all the options for now but i appreciate all the response. if anyone has anymore good ideas let me know!
cheers
cheers
Leigh Youdale
Well-known
I had a Minolta AF fixed lens RF with meter for a few years and as a starter camera it was very good. The lenses in Minoltas are first class. Eventually I wanted interchangeable lenses and bought my first Bessa, then another, and now I've just bought an M6. No more!
Leigh Youdale
Well-known
Sorry - that was a Minolta AL, not AF. If you Google Minolta AL you'll find a couple of sites with details of the camera.
Brian Legge
Veteran
Depends on your needs. If you're okay with a fixed lens camera, the Canonet 17 GIII is worth checking out if you can find a working one.
At least in the US, they seem to be relatively common. A working on can be had for $50 if you look around. Or an Olympus 35RC. Or the XA mentioned above if you want something really compact and care a bit less about image quality.
Frankly, the later fixed lens rangefinders were all solid cameras (again assuming it works). I haven't found one yet seemed 'bad'. They're all tradeoffs.
At least in the US, they seem to be relatively common. A working on can be had for $50 if you look around. Or an Olympus 35RC. Or the XA mentioned above if you want something really compact and care a bit less about image quality.
Frankly, the later fixed lens rangefinders were all solid cameras (again assuming it works). I haven't found one yet seemed 'bad'. They're all tradeoffs.
Darshan
Well-known
i bought Yashica GSN off ebay for $60 in working condition. I have run 3 rolls through it so far, 1st one was a disaster but the 2nd and 3rd came out great. I think I now know what I was doing wrong with the 1st one. The images are great and they are even better than prints from my GF1. I now ordered a 10 roll pack of 36 exp Tri-X 400, am really excited. It has in built meter with AE which I wanted.
The thing that I don't like about GSN is that it is big and heavy (did not expect that before buying). But u can get a GX which is smaller than the GSN and has a 40 1.7 lens and the functionality is equivalent I guess.
hope it helps,
dan.
The thing that I don't like about GSN is that it is big and heavy (did not expect that before buying). But u can get a GX which is smaller than the GSN and has a 40 1.7 lens and the functionality is equivalent I guess.
hope it helps,
dan.
Naumoski
Well-known
For the money pretty ideal would be some of the good fixed-lens rangefinder or maybe some cheaper body and good interchangeable lens as many said, some good new (relatively) used Bessa would be a great choice for the price/quality/body/lens.
First, when I got my Minolta 7sII, I wasn't quite satisfied with the results, but I got impressed by the latest roll I used it, even it was the cheapest Kodak gold 100 expired. I love to use this camera on its widest open aperture (f/1.7) and to shoot at sunset/shade/dusk/night to achieve its very nice bokeh and shill quite sharp images.
First, when I got my Minolta 7sII, I wasn't quite satisfied with the results, but I got impressed by the latest roll I used it, even it was the cheapest Kodak gold 100 expired. I love to use this camera on its widest open aperture (f/1.7) and to shoot at sunset/shade/dusk/night to achieve its very nice bokeh and shill quite sharp images.
januaryman
"Flim? You want flim?"
I agree that with a small budget you're better off selecting a nice fixed lens camera. The Canonet would be my choice, but there are many to choose from just as good. A good used Bessa R with a nice Jupiter 8 might cost you $300 or so and that might be your high cost option with the ability to swap out lenses.
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Roger Hicks
Veteran
I'm with -doomed-. Fixed lens RFs just aren't the same. Buy s/h if you have to, but a Bessa of some kind (I'd back an R2) will allow your stipulation "...could grow with, maybe upgrade as i go." A fixed-lens won't let you do this.
True, you can find an FSU camera for less, but you're then dealing with a much older, unmetered camera with a long and uncertain history. What was it like even when it was new, given Soviet QC? Has it been amateurishly 'repaired' or 'CLA'd'?
Cheers,
R.
True, you can find an FSU camera for less, but you're then dealing with a much older, unmetered camera with a long and uncertain history. What was it like even when it was new, given Soviet QC? Has it been amateurishly 'repaired' or 'CLA'd'?
Cheers,
R.
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rbiemer
Unabashed Amateur
I really like and use a few FSU cameras but I would not casually recommend any of them as a first RF camera. They can be wonderful old tools but getting there is often a tortuous path. If you like tinkering with mechanical thins in general, then by all means give a FED or Zorki or Kiev a go. If, on the other hand, you are not so inclined, then I'd not offer any FSU as a starter camera.
There are, as mentioned above, lots of potential candidates in the fixed lens cameras but as you mention that you want the possibility to grow with, as Doomed and Roger say, that option isn't available with those cameras.
So, the low cost choice basically comes down to a second hand Voigtlander, I think.
The Bessa R would be where I would start; used, they are in your budget and while they won't take M-mount lenses, they will happily use almost all the LTM lenses you can find.
Depending on what you prefer, there are some good inexpensive lens options available.
The R and the Voigtlander 50mm/f2.5 is a tough combination to beat for worry free, cheap-ish photography fun. Or, if you like wider, the 35mm/f2.5 is another hard to beat option.
Then there are all the vintage lenses out there.
Good hunting and welcome aboard!
Rob
EDIT: If you stumble across a silly low priced interesting looking camera try it.
There are, as mentioned above, lots of potential candidates in the fixed lens cameras but as you mention that you want the possibility to grow with, as Doomed and Roger say, that option isn't available with those cameras.
So, the low cost choice basically comes down to a second hand Voigtlander, I think.
The Bessa R would be where I would start; used, they are in your budget and while they won't take M-mount lenses, they will happily use almost all the LTM lenses you can find.
Depending on what you prefer, there are some good inexpensive lens options available.
The R and the Voigtlander 50mm/f2.5 is a tough combination to beat for worry free, cheap-ish photography fun. Or, if you like wider, the 35mm/f2.5 is another hard to beat option.
Then there are all the vintage lenses out there.
Good hunting and welcome aboard!
Rob
EDIT: If you stumble across a silly low priced interesting looking camera try it.
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zozio32
Member
Same path than you for me.
I am now waiting for the LTM to M mount adapter to match my Jupiter 8 and a Bessa R2. Actually, I got the jupiter with a Zorki 4k. For all I can say, there is a world of difference between the 2 cameras. I'll probably sell back the Zorki, I am not a collector.
The viewfinder is so much better in the R2, nobs are easier, I can trust the speeds, etc.
Basically, I think someone can be quit easily put off a concept (rangefinder) by issues that are not related to the concept itself but to a specific tool.
I think it will be wiser to wait the good opportunity on a Bessa type camera.
I am now waiting for the LTM to M mount adapter to match my Jupiter 8 and a Bessa R2. Actually, I got the jupiter with a Zorki 4k. For all I can say, there is a world of difference between the 2 cameras. I'll probably sell back the Zorki, I am not a collector.
The viewfinder is so much better in the R2, nobs are easier, I can trust the speeds, etc.
Basically, I think someone can be quit easily put off a concept (rangefinder) by issues that are not related to the concept itself but to a specific tool.
I think it will be wiser to wait the good opportunity on a Bessa type camera.
.hardware
Member
thanks everyone for there great advice. now the hunt begins!