First RF Camera. What should I look at?

[kmack]

For new, the $399 Cameraquest kit involving a Bessa R and a CV 35/2.5 Classic is a heck of a deal. Coming from screw mount Leicas, the finder of the Bessa R was a revelation and the CV 35/2.5 Classic is just a great lens. I like it much better than the Leitz Summaron 35/3.5 that it replaced.

I have to agree, the Bessa R and the CV 35/2.5 for $399 is an unbeatable combination. In addition there is a Canon 50/1.8 LTM for sale in the classifieds for $125. For your stated budget of $600 you will be getting a good body and 2 very good lenses.

 

[Dfin]

Look, Nobody Needs a rangefinder camera. Suitphoto, your young,fit,healthy brought up on digital. Your are use too carrying 2 D1wrx mk2s + triple extended 300mm F/1.8s. No it`s best you leave these small light, quiet old style light boxes, to us who are practiced in the black art, of manipulating silver and dangerous chemicals ,in confined spaces in complete darkness, or under a dim red/orange glow. A Secret old business, requiring great manual dexteriy with old time and light machines and many sheets of a special a coated paper. Most of which is made of unobtainium. No, you look to the future, that bright digital,disposable future with bigger chips and bigger bites. Never mind the quality feel the hard drive.

 

[Ash]

I'd still say go for something cheap and reliable before splurging. I was brought up on SLR's and enjoyed using digital as it was progressing from 320x240 images up to 10mp or whatever. I went straight for the cheapest RF I could find, and I'm happy with em!

If you know what you're doing with a camera, maybe try a FSU camera. You might be surprised. With a budget like yours you may as well go for a ZI or Leica M - I woulda if I had the cash!

Make sure whatever you buy is in excellent nick for the price, and you can sell if afterwards if you so wish.

 

[rover]

I have to agree, the Bessa R and the CV 35/2.5 for $399 is an unbeatable combination. In addition there is a Canon 50/1.8 LTM for sale in the classifieds for $125. For your stated budget of $600 you will be getting a good body and 2 very good lenses.

A vote for this exact plan.

 

[Ash]

well either way you want to leave as much as $100 for film and development - it can get costly!

 

[ErnestoJL]

Welcome to the RF world!

IMO, the first choice is to decide if you want a fixed or (and?) interchangeable lenses camera. Then there are options.
For fixed, the Canonet GIII is an excellent one (shutter priority), the Yashica Electro 35 is another nice camera (aperture priority), and there are many others priced within a fraction of your USD 600 budget. So, it will allow you to buy other things.

For interchangeable lenses, I guess you would think about the "future", it is to find a camera able to "grow" with your expectations.
Any camera with Leica M mount (Leica, Leica CL, Voigtländer Bessa, Zeiss Ikon ZM) will do, and perhaps the only within your budget is the CV Bessa.

Another option is to jump into FSU gear. No M mount here, just two options:
LTM (Leica Thread Mount - 39 mm) or Contax/Kiev mount (bayonet - compatible with itself only).
Cameras in this range would go for as little as USD 50 to 200 depending on condition, accesories, etc. You can find a Fed ( models 2; 3; 4) or Zorki (4 or 4k with winding lever) and save a lot of money to buy lenses, either russian or Leitz made. Besides, there are lots of good and cheap lenses for really damn low prices (I payed less than USD 30 for a russian Jupiter 11 - 135mm f4).

Even being myself a Contax/Kiev addict (and those are excellent and fun to use cameras), I wouldn´t recommend them for starting, just because it´s mount doesn´t allow you to use any other lenses other than those made specially for them, and there are no adapters nor anyone is making newer lenses.

Good luck with your choice (and take care of GAS).

Ernesto

 

[KoNickon]

Nobody has mentioned film or processing yet. I think the "classic" rangefinder film is black & white, and in the USA anyway that means Kodak Tri-X (400 speed). Ilford HP-5+ is similar film, and many people prefer it. These are older technology films, and do a great job, but you can also get newer formulations like Kodak T-Max or Ilford Delta.

As for processing, I don't know where you are, but any pro lab can do film developing for you. As a professional photographer (which I'd say you are from your job description) you are no doubt aware of places that do professional imaging work for both digital and film media, so I'd start with them. The films I've mentioned above are the classic silver-based emulsions so one hour photo places are unable to process them.

 

[SuitePhoto]

Thanks for all your help guys. I think I've narrowed the field to a Bessa R from CameraQuest or a Canonet III... The local camera store has a large case of used equipment so I'll run over there this weekend and see if I get lucky - otherwise I'll troll ebay and the classifieds here for something that turns my head.

Nick - thanks for the advice, looks like there are a few rolls of 400 speed Tri-X in my futrue.

Just as a side question (I'm sure you guys will get a kick out of this), how the hell do you come up with a correct exposure if there is no internal light meter in the camera - i.e. M2 or M3? You don't have to carry around a hand-held meter do you? Not that the internal meter in my 1D mkII is gospel, but I at least need that to give me a baseline...

 

[troym]

Just as a side question (I'm sure you guys will get a kick out of this), how the hell do you come up with a correct exposure if there is no internal light meter in the camera - i.e. M2 or M3? You don't have to carry around a hand-held meter do you? Not that the internal meter in my 1D mkII is gospel, but I at least need that to give me a baseline...

Three methods: (1) an auxiliary meter attached to the camera's shoe; (2) a handheld meter; or (3) trial and error.

I use trial and error with a meterless camera (or a camera where the meter's batter has died). After a little practice, you'll probably find that you're not too far off the correct exposure. If you start out with the "Sunny f/16" rule for exposure, you should develop a pretty good intuition for light intensity.

 

[planetjoe]

Just as a side question (I'm sure you guys will get a kick out of this), how the hell do you come up with a correct exposure if there is no internal light meter in the camera - i.e. M2 or M3?

Use the Ultimate Exposure Computer - your head + experience. That said, I'm still building up my supply of the latter...it's actually very freeing, although there is a fair bit of trial and error about it. Bracket when the shot is crucial. Truth be told, I carry a Minolta Autometer IVf with me when I'm carrying a bag, and meter whenever the light changes. I don't really mind the extra bulk.

There actually is an Ultimate Exposure Computer, and the read is pretty enlightening. Pun intended.


Cheers,
--joe.

 

[Ash]

you dont need an internal meter. you can use a handheld one. For the cheapest go for leningrad's, but there are all sorts of more expensive ones.

or get a CV(?) II shoe-mount meter.

 

[Ash]

The Ultimate Exposure Computer is too mind boggling!!!

 

[BillBingham2]

Mike,

As much as I love my Nikon S2 and Leica M bodies, start with the Bessa R. I think you will find the 35 a great place to start for RF work. CV makes a lot of great lenses at very reasonable prices.

My current kits are either a Nikon S2 with a CV 25/4, Nikkor 50/1.4 & 105/2.5 or a Bessa T with CV 15/4.5 & 40/1.4 and Nikkor 105/2.5.

You will not go wrong in dealing with Stephen over at CameraQuest, a very straight shooter.

I started photography in High School with an old Konica III and a hand held meter, worked fine for a year or so. I did just get my son a Bessa R and loaned him a set of CV lenses (35/1.7 & 75/2.5) to get started with.

Good luck and let us know how you make out.

B2 (;->

 

[KoNickon]

Outdoors with the Sunny f16 rule gets to be second nature rather quickly. But shooting indoors without a meter still gives me pause, and I find having the crutch of a good meter (internal or handheld) eliminates a lot of the angst.

 

[John]

originally posted by Rover
OK, who bought the Canonet?

Not me - but it looked great.

originally posted by SuitePhoto
how the hell do you come up with a correct exposure if there is no internal light meter in the camera

I use a VC II from Cosina/Cameraquest. 🙂

 

[FrankS]

I'd also suggest a Bessa R with CV35mm lens or Canon 50mm f1.8, or J8 50mm f2 lens. (There's a J3 50mm f1.5 selling at APUG right now for really cheap). Another possibility is a Leica CL body with the afore-mentioned lenses or the 40mm Summicron/Rokkor.

AS for indoor exposures, you just need to memorize a few settings:
(with 400 asa film)
indoor home lighting: 1/30 @ f2
indoor home lighting bright (kitchen) 1/30 @f2.8
indoors by a window (indirect sunlight) 1/60 @ f4
instututional florescent lighting 1/60 @ f4

 

[SuitePhoto]

Yea, that's something that us kids skipped completely. When I spend time on camera forums I am always amazed by how much I don't know! But I guess it's just a function of your environment. When working in my studio - I can guess an exposure within 2/3 stop. But I expect that because I shoot there 4-5 days a week. Shooting outdoors with the light constanly changing without a meter boggles my mind. But that is shooting digital, which has a much smaller dynamic range.

Ok, one last question. I'm about to pull the trigger on the Bessa R / 35mm f/2.5 package at CameraQuest. The lens name is 'Color Skopar Classic' - would I be correct in assuming that this lens is better suited to color film? I plan on shooting mostly high-contrast B&W... Would I be better off buying the body and then looking at other manufactures lenses? Idealy I would like a 35 - 40mm f/2 or faster...

 

[rover]

Go ahead and pull the trigger. All of the CV 35mm lenses are very good. The Color Skopar, any version, is sharp and has high contrast. If you want to spend more, the Ultron is faster, f1.7 max, is also sharp, larger, but renders images with less contrast. For the prices and availability, you won't find better LTM mm lenses. There are old Canons, but you will have to go searching, and a Canon 35/2 or 35/1.8 is going to run you only a little less than the Ultron and more than the Skopar. Same for Nikkors or any other classic lens you search for. In the 50mm fl you have some choices. The Canon 50/1.8 is a very good lens and can be had for $150 ish. The J8 50/2 mentioned by Frank can be found for under $50!!! I think it is worth throwing a nice clean J8 in your bag given the great price you can find it for.

 

[rover]

Oh yeah, color film, I don't do it often, but all my lenses work on that stuff too.

Hey, bottom line, don't stress out over it, just enjoy. You are going to get a decent machine no matter what you decide.

 

[BillBingham2]

IMHO, start with the 35 and see were you want to go from there. I used to think f2.5 was way too slow, yet these days I carry a 25/4 and find it fast enough 95% of the time.

Look at the classified here, often there are bargins better than you will find on ebay (I trust the folks here a lot more!).

Don't rush to another lens until you get a few rolls back. Have the scanned at the place you get them processed. You can do much better with your own scanner, but I only scan the great pictures (or the ones my wife wants bigger than 4x6) and this saves me a lot of time as my printing is all digital these days.

You may want to go wider (15mm CV is a fun lens) or try a lense that you guess the focus on (no rf coupling on the CV 25/4) or longer (75/2.5 is a nice lens for tighter shots).

B2 (;->