msbarnes
Well-known
OK, so I'm looking for a fixed-lens rangefinder. Like many people, I want the "best" lens, vieiwfinder, build, and rangefinder patch for the lowest price. However, this seems to be very personal and my feeling is that they will all perform very similarly.
My reason for wanting one is to have a RF that I do not have to worry about. (something that I can take to bars and parties for instance and not worry about having it stolen or lost). I'm thinking of a cheapish camera that cost $50-$100.
Here are my requirements:
-mechanical shutter
-semi-wide lens (35-45)
-cheapish ($50-$100)
-manual focusing
I don't like using epics for low light nor did I like the XA. I prefer large viewfinders and manual focusing, to be honest. I also don't like batteries, nor do i need a meter or flash. I have a bunch to choose from: canonets, hi-matics, auto s3, etc. so my questions are more general.
1. Is one make known for having a better rangefinder patch? I know that with canon LTM's the silver patches haven't aged well.
2. The auto s3 attracts me, for its reputation and I've had no complaints with my S2 lens (camera broke, however) so I was thinking of going that route. I believe the aperture is controlled electronically but I think the shutter is mechanical. Without a battery, I can shoot it at all shutterspeeds wide-open? That would be fine for me, not ideal, but maybe a compromise I can make. I plan on shooting this in low-light, exclusively.
So from Stephen Gandy's website, I was thinking:
Canonet QL17
Konica Auto S3
Minolta Hi-matic 7sII
Olympus RD
Pretty much eliminating electro's because they are AE, rollei's because they are scale focus (and slow), and most other ones because they are large.
My reason for wanting one is to have a RF that I do not have to worry about. (something that I can take to bars and parties for instance and not worry about having it stolen or lost). I'm thinking of a cheapish camera that cost $50-$100.
Here are my requirements:
-mechanical shutter
-semi-wide lens (35-45)
-cheapish ($50-$100)
-manual focusing
I don't like using epics for low light nor did I like the XA. I prefer large viewfinders and manual focusing, to be honest. I also don't like batteries, nor do i need a meter or flash. I have a bunch to choose from: canonets, hi-matics, auto s3, etc. so my questions are more general.
1. Is one make known for having a better rangefinder patch? I know that with canon LTM's the silver patches haven't aged well.
2. The auto s3 attracts me, for its reputation and I've had no complaints with my S2 lens (camera broke, however) so I was thinking of going that route. I believe the aperture is controlled electronically but I think the shutter is mechanical. Without a battery, I can shoot it at all shutterspeeds wide-open? That would be fine for me, not ideal, but maybe a compromise I can make. I plan on shooting this in low-light, exclusively.
So from Stephen Gandy's website, I was thinking:
Canonet QL17
Konica Auto S3
Minolta Hi-matic 7sII
Olympus RD
Pretty much eliminating electro's because they are AE, rollei's because they are scale focus (and slow), and most other ones because they are large.
f16sunshine
Moderator
stay with the S2.
The S3 is sweet with a battery in it but scores an incomplete without.
The S2 finder is bigger and brighter imo.
The S3 is sweet with a battery in it but scores an incomplete without.
The S2 finder is bigger and brighter imo.
msbarnes
Well-known
my S2 broke, so possibly I'd get another....my only complaint is the size, really, but it isn't unwieldy and life is about compromises anyways. Thanks for sharing your opinion.
Peter_wrote:
Well-known
yes.
i would also add the olympus 35rc. body quite the same size, but the lens is much more compact. it can be controlled fully manually without battery.
downside in comparison to the s3: lens one stop slower, and slowest shutter-speed 1/15 (in comparison to the 1/8 of the s3)
daniel~
Established
Having used all the cameras you mentioned except the Minolta 7sII, my personal favourite is Konica Auto S3, but Canon QL17 would meet your criteria best.
It's a solid camera with a fast 40/1.7 lens, a big & clear VF/RF. Even cheaper than the others on the list.
It's a solid camera with a fast 40/1.7 lens, a big & clear VF/RF. Even cheaper than the others on the list.
lam
Well-known
I second QL17.
I love the S3, I repaired one myself that I found at a thrift for cheap, and it was a great little camera but costly these days..
I love the S3, I repaired one myself that I found at a thrift for cheap, and it was a great little camera but costly these days..
Roger Hicks
Veteran
More is likely to depend on age and condition than anything else -- and condition in turn depends to a considerable extent on build quality, which puts Konica well to the fore.
Cheers,
R.
Cheers,
R.
teamsc10190
Established
My favorite is the Auto S3, but it fails your criteria for mechanical shutter and low price.
If you can live with the size, you really can't beat the Konica Auto S2. Great lens, great viewfinder, sterling build quality and inexpensive. Also consider it's faster lens twin; Auto S1.6.
Similar size as Auto S2 with great glass and meeting all of your criteria: please consider the Minolta Hi-Matic 9. You can find this camera dirt cheap.
The Canonet QL17 offers great build quality and size, but it's heavy, the control rings are small and difficult to operate and the lens to my eye doesn't pop the way Konica, Minolta and Olympus glass do.
Minolta Hi-matic 7sII and Olympus RD are both notable cameras, but also fail your criteria based upon price.
If you can handle another 100 grams, I'd like to suggest you consider the King Kong of FLRF's in the form of the Yashica Lynx 14e. The Yashica offers a monster 45mm/ ƒ1.4 lens (7-element, 5-group high quality design) with outstanding resolution and contrast that is optimized for available light shooting and will permit you to discard your flash permanently. At 860 grams it's also a great self-defense tool.
If you can live with the size, you really can't beat the Konica Auto S2. Great lens, great viewfinder, sterling build quality and inexpensive. Also consider it's faster lens twin; Auto S1.6.
Similar size as Auto S2 with great glass and meeting all of your criteria: please consider the Minolta Hi-Matic 9. You can find this camera dirt cheap.
The Canonet QL17 offers great build quality and size, but it's heavy, the control rings are small and difficult to operate and the lens to my eye doesn't pop the way Konica, Minolta and Olympus glass do.
Minolta Hi-matic 7sII and Olympus RD are both notable cameras, but also fail your criteria based upon price.
If you can handle another 100 grams, I'd like to suggest you consider the King Kong of FLRF's in the form of the Yashica Lynx 14e. The Yashica offers a monster 45mm/ ƒ1.4 lens (7-element, 5-group high quality design) with outstanding resolution and contrast that is optimized for available light shooting and will permit you to discard your flash permanently. At 860 grams it's also a great self-defense tool.
msbarnes
Well-known
I believe the Auto S3 has a mechanical shutter but the aperture is controlled electronically. Basically, i want a camera that can fire without a battery.
I'm not against weight but size/bulk.
I'd go for the Auto S1.6 but not if it costed much more than the S2 because the speed difference seems not that much.
I'm thinking that something full-sized (S2, Hi-matic 7) might be better for me because they are cheaper and oftentimes come with better viewfinders. They should be heavier too and more weight is a plus for me because my intention is a low-light shooter.
I forgot about that Yashica, that is something that I should perhaps consider.
I'm not against weight but size/bulk.
I'd go for the Auto S1.6 but not if it costed much more than the S2 because the speed difference seems not that much.
I'm thinking that something full-sized (S2, Hi-matic 7) might be better for me because they are cheaper and oftentimes come with better viewfinders. They should be heavier too and more weight is a plus for me because my intention is a low-light shooter.
I forgot about that Yashica, that is something that I should perhaps consider.
btgc
Veteran
You choose what is more important for you - overall size and weight (smaller cameras with "slow" f/2.8 lens which is plenty of speed, anyway) or maximum bokeh craze (sub-f/2 lenses). If you want both in one package then you are limited to few small cameras with fast lenses (check specs like focal length, speed range, exposure mode, ergonomics and price).
Personally I sing for AE-less FL RF's because of their natural responsiveness due to lack of additional linkages.
Personally I sing for AE-less FL RF's because of their natural responsiveness due to lack of additional linkages.
teamsc10190
Established
The Hi-Matic 9 is an improved version of the Hi-Matic 7 that adds a hot shoe and an 'Easy Flash' system to allow you to enter the flash G/N, and have aperture change coupled to focus for correct flash exposure.
The Hi-Matic 9 also offers an improved performance 45mm f1.7 lens; less prone to flare and loss of contrast in bright sun than the f1.8 in Hi-Matic 7 and 7s, (probably due to improved lens coatings).
Of the Hi-Matic 7, 7s, or 9 the Hi-Matic 9 was the most desirable IMO, but for an almost fifty year old camera, condition should probably make your decision. I’d avoid the Hi-Matic 11 due to deletion of manual control.
I'd agree that the small speed difference of the Auto S1.6 isn't worth significantly more than the Auto S2, but the addition of a hot shoe is worthwhile. Again: condition should be the more important consideration.
unixrevolution
Well-known
My favorite mechanical fixed-lens RF was my Baldamatic II before it broke. Nowadays I do the AE-thing with an Electro 35 for fixed lens, Leica M2 for full manual.
nosmok
Established
Vivitar 35se-- cheaper cousin of the Minolta 7sII, very sharp lens. Vivitar 35ee is even cheaper, but slower lens (f/2.8), still takes wonderful pix. I got my 35ee for 40 bux NIB on e*ay.
Kodak Signet rf's are an obscure other option. The Signet 35 I have looks like hell, only has 4 shutter speeds, but is built like a tank, focuses down to 2 feet and has a 44mm Ektar lens that is the ultimate sleeper-- the IQ will blow your mind. Cheap ones can still be found.
Kodak Signet rf's are an obscure other option. The Signet 35 I have looks like hell, only has 4 shutter speeds, but is built like a tank, focuses down to 2 feet and has a 44mm Ektar lens that is the ultimate sleeper-- the IQ will blow your mind. Cheap ones can still be found.