Flash for Zeiss Ikon

[Dwayneb9584]

Hey All,

So lately I've been shooting lots of photos at punk rock shows I attend and parties with friends. I noticed that It would be awesome to have a flash to couple my system. I have a Zeiss Ikon with a Voigtlander 35mm f2.5 PII lens. I was looking at the Metz flash 34-CS 2. It would be nice to have something small and compact like that. Can anyone recommend me anything, or tell me what you use if you have a flash. All help will be greatly appreciated.

Dwayne

 

[tlitody]

http://www.sunpak.jp/english/products/pf20xd/index.html

I bought the above but haven't used it yet. The reason I bought it is it is very small and light and very important for me, it has manual output control over a wider range than most unless you are getting a big expensive unit.
But if you are always going to be using it on auto then the metz has almost twice the power. The sunpak works on auto upto 7 meters (22 feet). That may or may not be enough for you. The metz always gives full output on manual so you are dependant on aperture to control lighting in manual. Because I wanted the unit for fill only, the manual control was more important to me.

 

[Luna]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/the_wrath_of_khan/tags/giantsvolume1/
(Not my stream but I shot the same thing except with a 5D2/24L/SB20)

Nikon SB-20 or SB-22. Got them for like 12 buck each.

 

[Dwayneb9584]

Thanks guys. That SB-20 looks to be great. I'd most likely use it in manual but does it give you automatic TTL Metering when attached to the Zeiss Ikon?

 

[tlitody]

Thanks guys. That SB-20 looks to be great. I'd most likely use it in manual but does it give you automatic TTL Metering when attached to the Zeiss Ikon?

Nope, the Ikon just acts purely as a firing trigger and that's all. No TTL.

 

[Dwayneb9584]

Nope, the Ikon just acts purely as a firing trigger and that's all. No TTL.

Ok so with that being said I guess it doesn't mater what flash I get.

 

[tlitody]

Ok so with that being said I guess it doesn't mater what flash I get.

Like I said, if you don't want manual output control the no it doesn't providing it's a flash with built in auto and a sufficient GN for your needs. But if you want to use it in manual, then it's well worth checking wht control on the flash unit there is for adjusting output manually. The Metz you suggested has none. The SB-20 does have it but not quite as much as the sunpak. The biggest difference between the sunpak and the SB-20 is that the SB-20 is nearly 3 times heavier without batteries and closer 4 times heavier with batteries. The SB-20 is much bigger. The SB-20 has a big sensor in it for auto zoom which only works with the right nikon cameras.
There may be other units. Take your pick....

 

[tlitody]

And the SB-20 is probably a better built unit with tilt and easier buttons to get at. But personally I didn't want a stonking great flash unit designed to sit on an SLR attached to such a small camera as a Zeiss Ikon. It would be somewhat unbalanced (top heavy).

 

[Dwayneb9584]

tlitody,

I agree with you on the size. I like the sunpak's size and if it's able to provide me with around the same amount of flash output them I'm sold.

 

[tlitody]

tlitody,

I agree with you on the size. I like the sunpak's size and if it's able to provide me with around the same amount of flash output them I'm sold.

The Guide Number tells you how much power it has and the guide number is usually in the model number. They are both GN 20 units so they have the same power output. The sunpak's batteries won't last as long because they are so much smaller ( but also cheaper).

 

[Dwayneb9584]

So you recommend the Sunpak over the Nikon Sb 20 due to size, price and similarities.

 

[tlitody]

So you recommend the Sunpak over the Nikon Sb 20 due to size, price and similarities.

I've never owned an SB-20. Price wise you can apparently get a used SB-20 for virtually nothing. A new sunpak is not expensive but would cost more than a used SB-20.
Size and weight wise the sunpak wins hands down. As I said, my criteria were small, light and good manual control for fill lighting.
Your criteria are different, You want one which primarily has good auto but also some manual control. They will both do what you want. One is just a lot bigger than the other.

 

[tlitody]

I would also have a look at the metz 28 CS 2.

A bit heavier than the sunpak but also a bit more powerful. Has manual power output control and also compensation in auto mode which can be used for setting fill lighting ratio.
Just over half the weight of the SB-20. But costs more than the sunpak.

p.s. I looked at the Metz 28 CS 2 and was very tempted because of its automation controls. But in the end I went for the Sunpak because its manual control goes down 1/32 and with additional one stop of the wide angle diffuser it goes to 1/64 output. For me the ability to reduce output by six stops is important for fill flash in bright lighting otherwise I would probably have got the Metz 28 CS 2 which only has 4 stops reduction in manual mode.

 

[Dwayneb9584]

Ok so with the Sunpak flash how would I get a correct exposure. My camera won't meter it right, or will it?

 

[rxmd]

Ok so with the Sunpak flash how would I get a correct exposure. My camera won't meter it right, or will it?

No it won't, but the flash has a few auto intensity modes.

Set the flash to one of the three auto modes. Look what ISO your film has. The table at the back of the flash gives you an aperture value, such as f/2.8 for ISO 100 and auto mode A1. Set the lens to this f/stop, select any speed lower than the flash sync speed and shoot away. The flash will regulate its output accordingly. You don't need to meter at all.

 

[Luna]

I use the SB-20/SB-22, which was $12, off camera with a PC Sync. I set the camera and then set the numbers on the flash. The SB will meter and set the flash output automatically if you set it to auto mode.

 

[tlitody]

Ok so with the Sunpak flash how would I get a correct exposure. My camera won't meter it right, or will it?

what RXMD said plus:

Auto flash (not TTL) units have a sensor which measures reflected light and switches off the flash when its got enough light back from subject. It assumes around 25% reflectance from typical subjects. Angle of view of the sensor is usually around 25 degrees.
This unfortunately means it doesn't always work as well you might like because you might have a lot of dark background in its field of view or someone wearing all white, but if your camera doesn't have TTL flash metering, which the Ikon doesn't, then its better than nothing when you don't have time to manually measure focus distance and calculate exact settings of camera aperture and flash output setting.
It's a bit like range focussing in that you set it for mid point of distance and it will work over a range from near distance to far distance depending on what you set it to.

 

[Dwayneb9584]

Ok cool, that sounds fine. I'm at this point tied between the Nikon SB 20 and the Sunpak.

 

[tlitody]

Ok cool, that sounds fine. I'm at this point tied between the Nikon SB 20 and the Sunpak.

After all this I would just say again that if you don't need the manual control then your original idea of the Metz 34 CS-2 is a good one. But if you need some manual control then personally I would opt for either the Sunpak or Metz 28 CS-2. For you since you are mostly going to be using it in auto, I would suggest the Metz 28 CS-2 is the best option but that is also the most expensive option.
Where the 28 CS-2 really wins is the exposure compenstion function as that allows you to use it in Auto mode for fill flash which negates the need for manual control in a lot of situations. So it really comes down to what you need manual control for.

 

[tlitody]

I would add that a major benefit of the compensation function on the 28 CS-2 is that in a club or party environment where you might frequently get a lot of dark background in the subject view which results in over exposure of the main subject, is that you can use the compensation function to automatically correct that from happening without having to adjust lens aperture.