Frustrated Photo-dork needs Advice Badly

lighten up a bit, eh?
most of us come here to relax, share and maybe learn something...not to be lectured to!
if you can't be civil then keep it to yourself.

Did the OP come here to be insulted?

it just strikes me that most of the people in this thread have quite the ego about their own skills and would rather protect it than offer good advice even when they get caught. Steveh is a great example.

Have deleted both my posts, as I have no wish to offend. Having taken a look at your Flickr I'll pass on the photo advice if it's all the same to you.

right...

is this the part where I take a passive-aggressive dig at your photographs?
 
Did the OP come here to be insulted?

it just strikes me that most of the people in this thread have quite the ego about their own skills and would rather protect it than offer good advice even when they get caught. Steveh is a great example.



right...

is this the part where I take a passive-aggressive dig at your photographs?

and you are the self appointed white knight?

i don't think so cowboy...
 
I'm going to post one reply and then go to bed because this is getting out of hand and I have every faith in Joe to deal with it as he sees fit (including banning me if he reads the deleted posts and finds they were gratuitously insulting to the original poster, which I don't think he will). In point of fact none of my comments were even aimed at the OP.

Redisburning, if we met in real life and had a ten minute conversation about photography in which I happened to disagree with you would you then turn around and call me pretentious, intellectually dishonest, ignorant and (just to complete the set) egotistical to my face? And if you wouldn't do that in real life why is it acceptable on RFF. Or am I missing something here?
 
Full frame is also under consideration but the cost is an issue, budget wise I'm kind of in the 5D Classic and 50/1.8 area right now and I'm not sure that would gain me much.

I would not discount that combination. a 50mm ƒ1.8 MKI is a bodycap on my 5D classic. and despite its simple double gauss design. its a pretty good performer. If digital is a consideration for you, this setup has a very powerful bang for its size.

5D-50mm-ex1.jpg

1/125 ƒ2.5 @200iso. straight out of camera.

5D-50mm-ex2.jpg

100% crop, no sharpening (on the cat, this is, after all, RFF)
 
My answer is not rhetorical, . . .Could your problem possibly be something else?
I really think Bob is on the right track. Not in the sense of offering a solution, but in terms of posing a question that will make you reevaluate the problem from a different angle. In general, I think this is a really helpful approach when confronting the problems of another person a) across a medium that tends to filter out a lot of information and b) that I do not (and perhaps most of us on RFF do not) know deeply.

I like the photos you posted. I think they show an ability to "see" rather than simply look. My observation about the current photo/tech marketplace is that there are a huge number of "flavors" to choose from and there is a tendency (at least I have this tendency) to think that there is a magic technological silver bullet out there. But this is not so. And this is why, about 10 years ago, I decided to insulate myself from gear-intensive magazines, even the better-written ones like Darkroom Techniques, and filter my "inputs" by seeking out only new images.

I spent some time today with the photo blog 500 Photographers, hosted by the NY Times. http://500photographers.blogspot.com/ There is a lot of work I don't care for there, and some really awesome stuff. But all of the photographers hosted there have managed something that has eluded me: the development of a particular personal aesthetic. Maybe that is a place to start.

Good luck. Your sense of dissatisfaction with your work suggests a moment of real promise and possibility in terms of your development as a photographer. Congratulations!

Ben Marks

[Edit: Part of the reason I focused on the "zen" of this problem is that I do not know a lot about the various technical aspects of digital photography. In the wet-darkroom world I was a one-film, one developer kind of guy. You learn the tools, blah blah blah. I knew/know juuuust enough to get the look I want. I think that the sheer number of possibilities these days can be quite daunting -- color profiling my printer and monitor? Forgeddaboudit. The reason that I suggested the NYTimes link is that if you find a set of images with a style that speaks to you, you can ask around for how to achieve that "look" and build from there.

To do a 180 and focus on the technical for a moment: the sample pictures in your OP looked fine to me in terms of sharpness, but that may be due to the limitations of the "small screen" as a medium. May I ask, what is the output medium that you are using to judge the technical quality of your work? Every image will "break down" if you enlarge it enough (or stand too close). 0If you are dissatisfied with those, do try a nice sturdy tripod and consider a light meter so that you can take more control of the scenes in which you find yourself.

And finally, I found an old hard drive today that contained backups from 2003-2005. At the time I was using a Canon Rebel, and an Epson Rd-1. You know what? The "sharpness" sucked - was just terrible - viewed at 100% on my monitor. But taken for what they were, the images weren't that bad. Maybe you need to make a resolution to view the images no larger than 8x10 inches . . .

This is a nice RD-1 photo at a reasonable size (DR Summicron). Blow it up too much and its mush:

2206483030_54b6e819bb_z.jpg
 
Food for thought, some words of wisdom from Chuck Close:

"here is the dilemma and the strength of photography... it is the easiest medium in which to be competent, but it is the hardest medium in which to have a personal vision that is readily identifiable... "
 
As mentioned, it's hard to compare the above photos to what the style you say you prefer. The second photo has the problems mentioned, but personally, I think the 1st is a stunning photo of a beautiful little girl that you are going to cherish more and more as time goes by. I don't see grain in it either. Just a wonderful photo of what I presume is your daughter?
 
Perhaps you have too many choices in equipment, lenses and IT skills.

As has been often suggested by others here, settle on one camera and one lens for a lengthy period. This is a kind of editing process before you take the photo. Forces you to really look,knowing what your one camera one lens can and can't do. Can't help you with PP and making a good print. My prints are darkroom stuff. Oh, many a fine artist knows maddening frustration so you are not alone. Just do something simple and different-it might be drawing, anything, as long as it is simple. I know a photographer who told me he does just that when he is stuck. Good luck.
 
Its not the camera and its not the photographer

Its not the camera and its not the photographer

Jim,
I skimmed my way though this thread and it looks like it may have lost its way. 😱

If I understand your original post correctly, your frustration comes from not being able to obtain beautiful PRINTS from your digital files. If that's the case, your problem does not lie in the camera or your skill as a photographer, in my very humble opinion. The source of your frustration is the printing process itself.

Getting any digital printer to produce what you see on your screen almost falls into the camp of 'pure magic'. This problem can't be overstated. In my opinion, the industry that supports the printing side of this new digital media world has done a truly HORRIBLE job of making print production anywhere near the simple task of operating a digital camera effectively. I'll guarantee you that you cannot simply follow the instructions that come with the printer and the print software and expect, in any way, to get a print that looks anything close to what you see on your computer screen.

My recommendation is that, if possible, you sign up for a digital printing class at your local community school, camera store... wherever. This experience will show you very quickly how your problem has nothing to do with your skills as a photographer. I'm exactly where you are in this process, and I'm determined to not let this camera-to-print techno-swamp deter me from making my own beautiful prints.

If you don't have access to a local class, a good second best is simply to buy one of the many books on producing good prints using the specific computer/printer/software you have. And then follow the book religiously, because the printer/printer software designers and manufacturers have not yet come close to making this simply a matter of pushing a button. Good luck, Jim. 🙂
 
If I understand your original post correctly, your frustration comes from not being able to obtain beautiful PRINTS from your digital files. If that's the case, your problem does not lie in the camera or your skill as a photographer, in my very humble opinion. The source of your frustration is the printing process itself.
If that's the case, I can say that I was greatly helped by an early version of tutorial videos (paid downloads) on the topic from The Luminous Landscape:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/videos/tutorials/camera_to_print_and_screen.shtml

...Mike
 
Thanks, Mike. I'll have a look. I vaguely remember these.

I'm fortunate enough to live in an area with a pretty active photography marketplace that includes two great places for taking quick, to-the-point, classes in digital: Rayko in San Francisco, and Looking Glass in Berkeley.
 
My answer is not rhetorical, but a sincere belief. Edward Steichen once said "No photographer is as good as the simplest camera" I hate to sound harsh, but if Steichen, whose photographs date from the beginning of the 20th century, had no technical problems you should not either. Could your problem possibly be something else?


Yes, it's entirely possible. I'm not ruling out any angle of approach here. I will add this to my bag of things to consider.
 
I would not discount that combination. a 50mm ƒ1.8 MKI is a bodycap on my 5D classic. and despite its simple double gauss design. its a pretty good performer. If digital is a consideration for you, this setup has a very powerful bang for its size.

5D-50mm-ex1.jpg

1/125 ƒ2.5 @200iso. straight out of camera.

5D-50mm-ex2.jpg

100% crop, no sharpening (on the cat, this is, after all, RFF)

Thanks for posting this, I won't rule this out now.

Nice cat BTW 😀
 
I really think Bob is on the right track. Not in the sense of offering a solution, but in terms of posing a question that will make you reevaluate the problem from a different angle. In general, I think this is a really helpful approach when confronting the problems of another person a) across a medium that tends to filter out a lot of information and b) that I do not (and perhaps most of us on RFF do not) know deeply.

I like the photos you posted. I think they show an ability to "see" rather than simply look. My observation about the current photo/tech marketplace is that there are a huge number of "flavors" to choose from and there is a tendency (at least I have this tendency) to think that there is a magic technological silver bullet out there. But this is not so. And this is why, about 10 years ago, I decided to insulate myself from gear-intensive magazines, even the better-written ones like Darkroom Techniques, and filter my "inputs" by seeking out only new images.

I spent some time today with the photo blog 500 Photographers, hosted by the NY Times. http://500photographers.blogspot.com/ There is a lot of work I don't care for there, and some really awesome stuff. But all of the photographers hosted there have managed something that has eluded me: the development of a particular personal aesthetic. Maybe that is a place to start.

Good luck. Your sense of dissatisfaction with your work suggests a moment of real promise and possibility in terms of your development as a photographer. Congratulations!

Ben Marks

[Edit: Part of the reason I focused on the "zen" of this problem is that I do not know a lot about the various technical aspects of digital photography. In the wet-darkroom world I was a one-film, one developer kind of guy. You learn the tools, blah blah blah. I knew/know juuuust enough to get the look I want. I think that the sheer number of possibilities these days can be quite daunting -- color profiling my printer and monitor? Forgeddaboudit. The reason that I suggested the NYTimes link is that if you find a set of images with a style that speaks to you, you can ask around for how to achieve that "look" and build from there.

To do a 180 and focus on the technical for a moment: the sample pictures in your OP looked fine to me in terms of sharpness, but that may be due to the limitations of the "small screen" as a medium. May I ask, what is the output medium that you are using to judge the technical quality of your work? Every image will "break down" if you enlarge it enough (or stand too close). 0If you are dissatisfied with those, do try a nice sturdy tripod and consider a light meter so that you can take more control of the scenes in which you find yourself.

And finally, I found an old hard drive today that contained backups from 2003-2005. At the time I was using a Canon Rebel, and an Epson Rd-1. You know what? The "sharpness" sucked - was just terrible - viewed at 100% on my monitor. But taken for what they were, the images weren't that bad. Maybe you need to make a resolution to view the images no larger than 8x10 inches . . .

This is a nice RD-1 photo at a reasonable size (DR Summicron). Blow it up too much and its mush:

2206483030_54b6e819bb_z.jpg

I'm going to go through the NYT link you posted. Thanks for your advice both technical and non-technical both were very helpful.

I usually print no bigger than 8.5X11, I'm too cheap to buy the bigger paper 🙂

That's a great portrait you posted, thanks for sharing it.
 
As mentioned, it's hard to compare the above photos to what the style you say you prefer. The second photo has the problems mentioned, but personally, I think the 1st is a stunning photo of a beautiful little girl that you are going to cherish more and more as time goes by. I don't see grain in it either. Just a wonderful photo of what I presume is your daughter?

Thanks for your kind words on my first pic. That's my youngest daughter Abby with her St. Paddy's day hat.

I realize that the comparison wasn't easy since the pics are different, thanks to all for sticking with me through this....
 
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