FSU cameras when they were new

[motormike900]

Were Russian cameras expensive back in the days of the USSR?
What would they be compared to price wise today?
I am just curious, and wonder if most soviet households had a fed or zorki like my parents had a 110 Kodak.

Thanks
Mike

 

[davidnewtonguitars]

I read the Soviet Union produced more cameras than any other country.
I don't know what they cost when they were made, but they must have been affordable, or they wouldn't be available to us now.

Opinion: I grew up in the 1950's & 60's and was told that everything the Russians made was crap. I now own a 1950's Zorki and it works great, paid $90. including CLA.
I wish I owned a similar American camera, but an Argus doesn't cut it.

Somewhere in Russia a guy is polishing his Chevy and saying the same thing about Russian cars.

 

[CameraQuest]

Were Russian cameras expensive back in the days of the USSR?
What would they be compared to price wise today?
I am just curious, and wonder if most soviet households had a fed or zorki like my parents had a 110 Kodak.

Thanks
Mike

inexpensive,
not exported to the West
so practically impossible to find outside the USSR and soviet friendly countries

 

[xayraa33]

I am sure that the desirable FSU cameras like the Kiev RF camera cost over a month or two worth of wages in the USSR and were procured new only to favoured citizens loyal to the communist party.

And these cameras were always in short supply despite ramping up production quotas yearly to ridiculous levels, hence the drop in quality and ill advised design shortcuts.

 

[tunalegs]

inexpensive,
not exported to the West
so practically impossible to find outside the USSR and soviet friendly countries

I thought they were pretty expensive in the USSR, but relatively cheap anywhere else because the of the need to bring in hard currency.

Outside of the iron curtain, Zenits were cheaper than Prakticas, which were cheaper than pretty much anything else if you wanted an SLR.

 

[msarkki]

They were not very cheap even as exports right after the war. In Finland brand new -49 Kiev with a collapsible ZK 50/2 was around 2300 EUR converted to current value of money.

As a reference around the same time, used mint condition Zeiss Olympia Sonnar with Flektoscope for Kiev/Contax could be bought around 1500 EUR.

I am sure that the desirable FSU cameras like the Kiev RF camera cost over a month or two worth of wages in the USSR and were procured new only to favoured citizens loyal to the communist party.

And these cameras were always in short supply despite ramping up production quotas yearly to ridiculous levels, hence the drop in quality and ill advised design shortcuts.

 

[johnf04]

I bought a Zenit 3m new, in 1970, in New Zealand. It wasn't expensive, and FSU cameras were common here.

 

[p.giannakis]

Here is an article on Popular Photography (Oct 1956) talking about Photography in USSR. Scroll down on page 56.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...RAhVlKsAKHSlxAvwQ6AEIHDAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

[btgc]

I am just curious, and wonder if most soviet households had a fed or zorki like my parents had a 110 Kodak.

Most Soviets didn't have any camera because there were no labs around like we know them today. People went to photography saloons to have pictures taken, even in small city they used large format camera, for some reason I remember glass plates put into camera. Pity is they not always could focus properly.

From all my friends only one had a Zenit (he used it to photocopy German magazines), and most of kids had Smena zone focusers - because of price, and it had lens already on it )

So all in all, it weren't too cheap hobby for average person. Soviet people had more free time than money, so they anyway had to have cameras to document their lives - at least, in cities. Sailors took home Western goods, including cameras and film to sell for profit.

I read on Internet memories of photogs - they say since Olympics 1980 Soviet pros shoot mostly Nikons, while factories churned out badly made cameras for masses which people bought, took for warranty repair several times and then tossed into cupboard. Soviet copy of Nikon (Almaz?) used improper materials so it never worked as it should for extended time. Some photogs remember they had to establish connections at a shop to be able to sort through several copies of cameras or lenses to select least defective one.

I bought FED-5 out of curiosity, being able to CLA it. Happily, shutter works fine, I just cleaned RF and reworked Industar-61 which had oily aperture and crud inside it and dried lube in helicoid. It's OK but any of old German or even Japanese cameras are much more refined. As I don't have sentimental memories about Soviet regime I don't feel urge to collect more cameras to prove myself they weren't that bad. What's gone is gone. I have collected a pile of Western cameras to fulfill my "all you can have is a Smena" childhood's feeling, but even that turned out wrong choice. One good camera, less repairs and more shooting would be a better path.

 

[Dralowid]

From memory, export of things like cameras did not start until after the Russian Exhibition in London in 1961. It was fantastic and I have copied this picture before!

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=r...KHZJVBzEQ_AUICSgE&dpr=1#imgrc=0RPWT0HUeoY9DM:

Technical and Optical Equipment was formed in 1961 and acted as importer to the UK.

There is loads of info here:

http://cameras.alfredklomp.com/toe/

I had an Instamatic 50 at the time...

 

[MIkhail]

My memories are different. Almost every household had zenit or fed or Kiev.
Almost every man more or less knew how to develop black and white. My best memories from childhood are as my dad and I were printing pictures in darkroom (bathroom). My dad was not a pro or even amateur, it was just normal life skill like cutting grass. Paper was unibrom. I got Smena 8m at the age of about 11 or 12. Dad had Kiev with Jupiter 50mm. When I got interested in color, I was buying ORWO slides and developing in labs, which were plenty of.

By the way regarding buying new vs. used.
I never knew a concept of buying something used until I moved in US.
I am not saying people were not buying used there but mostly because of deficit of goods rather than lack of money.

 

[MIkhail]

Most Soviets didn't have any camera because there were no labs around like we know them today. People went to photography saloons to have pictures taken, even in small city they used large format camera, for some reason I remember glass plates put into camera. Pity is they not always could focus properly.
.

.

That's wrong.
I lived in Kiev. Where are you from?

 

[btgc]

That's wrong.
I lived in Kiev. Where are you from?

I knew it. In large cities like Kiiv, Moscow etc. there were labs who took film to develop and make prints but they did it manually as far as I know. Hit or miss job, right. C41 and E6 would be whole different story, let alone finding decent film. I'm speaking of early 80ies.

In my smalltown there were no such service and closest city to do it "commercially" would be Riga, I guess, that's about 100km. Too expensive and time consuming even when train tickets were heavily subsidized from oil trade. People just learned to develop and print themselves which rather coexisted well with urban living, while in countryside only winter months allowed to have plenty of free time. I'll ask around if there were options to outsource photo works locally, but that would rather be local amateur not commercial shop.

What I'm saying is - then there were no developed network of labs outside capitals and large cities so photography automatically did mean learning chemical side of things to keep doing picture taking. Not saying it's bad, people just couldn't do their "million of worst pictures ever" projects. On other side, amateurs produce a lot of what later is used to illustrate past times.

 

[MIkhail]

I knew it. In large cities like Kiiv, Moscow etc. there were labs who took film to develop and make prints but they did it manually as far as I know. Hit or miss job, right. C41 and E6 would be whole different story, let alone finding decent film. I'm speaking of early 80ies.

In my smalltown there were no such service and closest city to do it "commercially" would be Riga, I guess, that's about 100km. Too expensive and time consuming even when train tickets were heavily subsidized from oil trade. People just learned to develop and print themselves which rather coexisted well with urban living, while in countryside only winter months allowed to have plenty of free time. I'll ask around if there were options to outsource photo works locally, but that would rather be local amateur not commercial shop.

What I'm saying is - then there were no developed network of labs outside capitals and large cities so photography automatically did mean learning chemical side of things to keep doing picture taking. Not saying it's bad, people just couldn't do their "million of worst pictures ever" projects. On other side, amateurs produce a lot of what later is used to illustrate past times.

To have lab develop black and white would be considered waste of money 🙂 normal man developed & print himself. Color was more difficult so I opted for slides. Russian made slides were fading quickly but German film was available.

I am talking about 70-80th too.

 

[David Hughes]

Hi,

This opens up a can of worms, doesn't it?

Firstly, in the old USSR were Kievs, FEDs and Zorkis typical family cameras? Or was it the Cosmic Symbol or Smena 8m that were the equivalent to the box Brownie or Kodak Instamatic?

And where did the MF USSR made cameras fit in?

Then there's the question of expensive, which relates to income which relates to the status of your job. An example, before the war proof readers, car mechanics and even dark room technicians were high status jobs with high wages but nowadays computers have taken over. Only postmen and the soldiers in the PBI have jobs that were the same over a period of decades but the wages for them go up and down so long term prices mean nothing. And averages are fairly meaningless on their own.

So my answer is "I dunno" and further research is needed...

Regards, David

 

[radi(c)al_cam]

This opens up a can of worms, doesn't it?

Of course, dear David 😀

I guess, in contrast to Westerners, in the former Eastern bloc everyone was aware that if your behaviour was inadequate, the proper authorities will notice quite soon.

Hence, everyone who was going to shoot somehow «critical» pictures was forced to have a home-lab.

By «critical» I don't necessarily mean «regime ridiculing», it could have been be something like photographing nudity, e.g.: while nudity was quite common (naturism, nudism at the sea or the lakes), photographing nudity was «inadequate», if not even outlawed in some of the Eastern bloc jurisdictions.

 

[btgc]

normal man developed & print himself.
.......
Russian made slides were fading quickly but German film was available.

I agree - once one has learned something it's a lifetime skill, usually. Don't know if I would be more normal mixing powders back then as with liquid concentrate now it's almost too easy )

German film, yeah. Photogs asked RBL5 for one 15x20 color print (average salary were, eh, 120?) and no one ever would think to ask 'em working for display like it happens now when bride want's "no prints, only a disc with at least 1200 pictures so it can't cost money".

 

[valdas]

My memories are from early 80ties from small town in Lithuania... Smena 8 was quite common, I got it when I was 12 or 13. Zenit/Kiev - not cheap (probably around a monthly salary) and not easy to find. When it comes to development/printing, it was all DIY. There were so called "household service companies" (literal translation), they were providing all kind of services - from laundry to film development, but nobody used them 🙂
DDR's Praktica was a "pro camera". Only owned by pro journalists (sourced by an employer, not available in stores) or bought on "black market" (as many other things including any brand of jeans🙂) Thus - no nostalgia 🙂

 

[MIkhail]

And where did the MF USSR made cameras fit in?

Then there's the question of expensive, which relates to income which relates to the status of your job. An example, before the war proof readers, car mechanics and even dark room technicians were high status jobs with high wages but nowadays computers have taken over. Only postmen and the soldiers in the PBI have jobs that were the same over a period of decades but the wages for them go up and down so long term prices mean nothing. And averages are fairly meaningless on their own.

So my answer is "I dunno" and further research is needed...

Regards, David

The MF cameras (Moskva) were used primary by pros. But I have not seen a lot of them. In places equivalent of "Sears Photo" they used large format, for some reasons.
There was also service of catching you on a street and snapping a picture and then giving you a business card. You can come back later and review the small prints / contacts and order yourself a picture. This way I have a picture of myself and my future wife walking on our first date.
There was also service of copying pictures from foreign magazines, already mentioned here, for various purposes (from nude women to best examples of western photography).
All these guys were making decent money, I figure, mostly "under the table".

 

[Ko.Fe.]

Russian Rangefinder forum has similar thread on ten pages.
http://rangefinder.ru/club/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=15404

I'm helping with translation here.
Somewhere in fifties prices went down.

Zorki-2C 700 RUB, FED-2 550 RUB, Kiev-III around 2000 RUB.

FSU prices from fifties are 10:1 to later prices due to money reform (10:1 devaluation).

1955 Official shipping catalog with prices.

Lubitel listed around 100 RUB. Smena 200 RUB. Zorki 705 RUB. Kiev 2000 RUB. Kiev 2340. Average monthly salary around 740 RUB.

Zenit C was 700 RUB in 1959 with average monthly salary of 770 RUB.

Here is the wages table (monthly payments),

http://opoccuu.com/wages.htm

years on the left, next to it is average FSU salary. I'm finding it accurate from what I have read and what I have myself.

1962 prices from Soviet book by Bunimovitch "Camera choice".
Keiv-Vega - 22руб.50 коп. Smena - 11руб, Smena-2 13 руб, Smena-5 - 9 руб. Smena-6 13 руб. 50 коп. Zarya - 27 руб. Unost 27 руб. Zorki-С 28 руб, Zorki-2С with Industar 30 руб. Zorki-4 with Jupiter 61 руб. Zorki-5 with Industar-50 28 руб. Zorki-6 with I-50 43 руб. Fed-2 with I-10 26 руб. Mir with I-50 35 руб, with J-8 48 руб. Drug - 70 руб. Kiev 111А (если 83 руб. Kiev 4А -115 руб. Kiev 4 - 125 руб. Leningrad 125 руб. Zenit-С 50 руб. Zenit-3 80 руб. Start -130 руб!!! Lubitel-2 10 руб. Lubitel 8 руб. Estafeta - 24 руб. Unikor 6 руб. 50 коп. Iskra 85 руб. Moskva-4 24 руб. Moskvа - 5 26 руб. Salut - 400 руб (!) FT-2 43 руб. Sputnik - 26 руб. Narziss - 85 руб (suggested).

Руб is Rubl. Коп is kopeyka (1 Rubl is 100 Kopeyek).
Average monthly salary in 1962 - 84 RUB.


In seventies prices went up due to new models. But they kept same manufacturing, pricing strategy.
Cameras like Lubitel and Smena were very affordable. Zorki, FED were one, half-salary range. SLRs and Kiev more expensive. Medium format was even more expensive.
Salut-S was 435 RUB in 1979, monthly average salary 150 RUB.

Da ztrastvuet Souz Sovetskih Sozialisticheskich Resbublic!