Fuji film stock coming to an end?

[Ste_S]

Spoke to my film peeps at Samys in LA. They said Fuji is not discontinuing film. But is raising prices.

To be honest, they're got going to know what's going on in Fuji in Japan.

Does seem though that Fuji's film cull has halted for now. I was expecting C200 and Superia X-tra 400 to go after they killed multi packs a while back and they stopped supply for Agfa Vista.

 

[Ted Striker]

Wrong. Again.
That text has never been published before by Fujifilm.

You are incorrect. That text, word for word, is on the brochure from the Fujifilm GF670 camera. I have a copy of it somewhere in storage. Whenever it resurfaces, I'll scan it and post it here.

 

[Paul T.]

This thread started with a vague unsubstantiated, unverifiable anecdote. Then went south fast.

 

[Faintandfuzzy]

Ok, you win... there is no expired film for sale anywhere. Digital cameras are computers that keep evolving. Of course there are older models for sale used. I don’t see the point of your comparison.

I said E6 is selling better now than it was years ago. And I get a reply about b&h....who cares about b&h. My point is E6 isnt dead. Good lord some people are thick around here.

You're right. E6 is dead...only expired film stock everywhere. Kodak only pretended to reintroduce it. Ted is the god of film info. That should satisfy you.

 

[ptpdprinter]

Reason I don't check their site: you have to buy in lots of five rolls, and the price for an expired product is ridiculous. Of course - if nobody were buying it, I'm sure they'd sell it cheaper.

If you don't buy five rolls at a time, you can't be shooting much film.

 

[jsrockit]

I said E6 is selling better now than it was years ago. And I get a reply about b&h....who cares about b&h. My point is E6 isnt dead. Good lord some people are thick around here.

You're right. E6 is dead...only expired film stock everywhere. Kodak only pretended to reintroduce it. Ted is the god of film info. That should satisfy you.

I don’t think I said that or anyone said that. Nobody disputed Kodak reintroduced a film. That doesn’t answer the question as to why there is always a lot of expired film around for sale. I completely agree that the film market looks better now than 3 years ago. However, when I see new film cameras being introduced by the major companies, i will really believe.

 

[Skiff]

You are incorrect. That text, word for word, is on the brochure from the Fujifilm GF670 camera. I have a copy of it somewhere in storage. Whenever it resurfaces, I'll scan it and post it here.

Prove it. Post it here. Otherwise it is again just another misinformation by you.

I've been at Photokina when this camera was introduced. And this text was not published. And I've never seen it in any camera brochure of Fujifilm.
It is also unlikely because in 2008, when this camera was introduced, the global film market was still about almost one billion rolls p.a. And Fujifilm had its full film line up from the peak era.

 

[jonmanjiro]

On the topic of the Fuji Superia X-TRA 400 box getting a makeover (in the US and European markets only?), I really don't buy it as proof of Fujifilm's commitment to film.

Why? Because Fuji Superia X-TRA 400 has gone the way of the dodo in Japan. Gone. History. No longer available.

Does anyone else remember the Neopan 100 box getting a makeover a few years back? Neopan 100 ain't nowhere to be found now.

Wrong. Again.
That text has never been published before by Fujifilm.

You are incorrect. That text, word for word, is on the brochure from the Fujifilm GF670 camera. I have a copy of it somewhere in storage. Whenever it resurfaces, I'll scan it and post it here.

On the topic of the GF670 brochure, I assume its this one (USA website) and this one (European website).

The text Skiff quoted ain't in there...

 

[Skiff]

This thread started with a vague unsubstantiated, unverifiable anecdote. Then went south fast.

Those doom and gloom prayers who assert that Fujifilm has stopped film production long ago have never given the smallest proof at all for that. Never ever.

These guys simply have no clue at all about film production.
Fact is that Fujifilm is by far the biggest photo film manufacturer worldwide:
Last fiscal year (ended 31th March) they have had another sales record for the instax film cameras: 10 million in that fiscal year. Fujifilm at Photokina explained that the whole global market for instax is meanwhile about 40 million users. Its a huge mass market.

Their instax film production is running in 3 shifts a day, 24h. No other film manufacturer in the world still has a 3 shift production.
Fujifilm is producing much more instax film p.a. than all other photo film manufacturers together!

And: All instant film has a negative film as an essential part in it. And this negative film is produced exactly the same ways as other photo films: The emulsions are mixed in the same kettles, and the film is coated on the same coating machine.
Therefore this "Fujifilm has scrapped its film manufacturing" is just a huge lie. Period.

 

[tunalegs]

I don’t think I said that or anyone said that. Nobody disputed Kodak reintroduced a film. That doesn’t answer the question as to why there is always a lot of expired film around for sale.

Where is all this mythical expired film?


The shops I frequent here used to have shelves where they put all the expired film, for 50% off, but I haven't seen a SINGLE ROLL appear on these shelves in at least five years now.

 

[Skiff]

On the topic of the GF670 brochure, I assume its this one (USA website) and this one (European website).

The text Skiff quoted ain't in there...

Exactly. It is as I said.

 

[Skiff]

Why? Because Fuji Superia X-TRA 400 has gone the way of the dodo in Japan. Gone. History. No longer available.

But there is Superia Premium 400 offered in Japan. Maybe the same film. I've only used Superia X-Tra 400 so far, excellent film. But I did not a direct comparison to Superia Premium, because it was never offered here where I live.

 

[Prest_400]

Fuji's distribution is also quite interestingly odd. In the US (from seeing the online catalog at B&H) Superia Xtra 400 in 3 packs is about the best bang for the buck. $9.5


160NS was not available in 35mm for ages, but it was offered even in 220 until 2017 (?). Outlasted Pro 400 in that format, which should be a faster selling product, but I don't know how telling about stock and manufacturing it may be.

 

[jonmanjiro]

But there is Superia Premium 400 offered in Japan. Maybe the same film. I've only used Superia X-Tra 400 so far, excellent film. But I did not a direct comparison to Superia Premium, because it was never offered here where I live.

Nope, not the same film. For quite a few years, Superia Premium 400 and Superia X-Tra 400 were both domestically available, often side by side in the shops, with the Premium version (which is supposedly tweaked for better rendering of Japanese skin tones according to the marketing) offered at almost double the price of the X-TRA.

 

[joe bosak]

The phrase "preserving the culture of photography" appears in a lot of Fuji material, including the GF670 brochure, it's easy enough to find on the web. So whether or not that exact text is new, it's probably been their standard line for a long time.

But really, companies - like politicians - will take things to the brink before making an announcement, so whether it's new material or not hardly matters. We don't know. And making a marketing poster from cutting and pasting doesn't take much.

But periodic discounting proves nothing either, it could suggest a mismatch between demand and supply at some level and over some period, or it might just be retailers competing with each other or trying to stir up demand. All sorts of things get regular discounts round here, it doesn't necessarily presage doom for the product...

 

[Skiff]

That doesn’t answer the question as to why there is always a lot of expired film around for sale.

I doubt that that is really the case on a global scale.
What I do know is - explained to me by big film distribution companies - that sometimes films with short guarantee dates are collected by bigger distributors: They buy them from smaller dealers and then offer them with a discount to their customers (that is what B&H e.g. is doing, some big European distributors, too).
The reason why there are films with shorter dates: Unprecise handling by store employees: Normally the "first-in-first-out" principle is used. But if the employees in the warehouse don't take care, the freshest film is put in front of the not so fresh film on the film shelf / rack and is sold first. And if that happens not only once, you have quite old film on the back of your film shelf.
Humans are not perfect, so that happens from time to time at almost all film dealers / distributors.

I completely agree that the film market looks better now than 3 years ago. However, when I see new film cameras being introduced by the major companies, i will really believe.

There are millions of unused film cameras around. From 2000 to 2007 alone more than 80 million film cameras have been sold (you find the exact number on the CIPA webpage). I think in the short and mid-term it is more than sufficient to strengthen the film revival if more of these unused cameras are coming back into regular operation.

 

[Skiff]

Nope, not the same film. For quite a few years, Superia Premium 400 and Superia X-Tra 400 were both domestically available, often side by side in the shops, with the Premium version (which is supposedly tweaked for better rendering of Japanese skin tones according to the marketing) offered at almost double the price of the X-TRA.

Thanks.
So when the Japanese market has shown a preference for Superia Premium, it would make sense for Fujifilm to concentrate on that product in that market.
And offer the other products in the markets which prefer it.

 

[jonmanjiro]

Thanks.
So when the Japanese market has shown a preference for Superia Premium, it would make sense for Fujifilm to concentrate on that product in that market.
And offer the other products in the markets which prefer it.

I do not buy the preference thing at all, Skiff. First of all there is no way that the Premium version outsold the X-TRA version to the point that Fujifilm said to themselves lets axe the cheaper option in Japan because no one is buying it. The market here is definitely big enough to support both options. Secondly, I know plenty of people in the Japanese market who would much rather have the cheaper option available (and Industrial 400 as well, which is also gone and was just X-TRA in a budget wrapping).

Rather, I see it as the reverse of what happened with Neopan 400. It was available here for quite a few months after it was no longer available anywhere else in the world. So basically you guys get the remaining X-TRA until it is gone, and we get Premium until it is gone. Am I right? I dunno, but we will find out soon enough.

 

[Skiff]

So basically you guys get the remaining X-TRA until it is gone, ....

I doubt that. Because it would not make economic sense at all to give this film a complete new packaging (with a complete new design) - as it was done last year. Why invest much money in a product that is discontinued? You only loose profit by that. And Fujifilm has been so successful as a company in the last years because they care for profitability.
Well, we will see.
I will continue to use Fuji films because they are excellent. And I will continue to use Kodak, Ilford and Adox films for the same reason.

 

[jonmanjiro]

Your ability to see the film market through a rosy and positive "lens" is certainly admirable, Skiff.

Neopan 100 got lovely new packaging with a new design too a few years back. Come to think of it, I wonder how many of the Fujifilms that got new packaging back then are still around. Must go and check that some time.