Fuji film stock coming to an end?

[B-9]

Lol, I find all of this hilarious.

I have no worries about the future of Fujifilms or film in general.

Mostly have the opposite sentiment. If Fuji stops there will be someone else to pick up the slack. Film is here to stay just like Muscle Cars and Tube Amplifiers.

I fully support you guys twirling away your time worrying about hypotheticals. Someone has to do it!

 

[jonmanjiro]

I fully support you guys twirling away your time worrying about hypotheticals. Someone has to do it!

Isn't that what forums are for?! 😀

 

[B-9]

Don’t forget photos of cats and coffee! Lol but yes totally agree.

 

[J enea]

I agree that someone will take up the slack. just hope slide film will be around for a while.

 

[Skiff]

The more unwelcome surprise this time is that Superia Venus 800 will be discontinued.

Not a surprise at all. The news is almost 1 1/2 years old that Fuji had to stop ISO 800 film production.

 

[Skiff]

I agree that someone will take up the slack. just hope slide film will be around for a while.

Both Kodak Alaris and Fujifilm reported increasing demand last Photokina. For C41 and E6. The number of labs also offering E6 is increasing. Tetenal is working on additional 1L E6 kits because of increasing demand. E6 is here to stay.

 

[Prest_400]

Lol, I find all of this hilarious.

I have no worries about the future of Fujifilms or film in general.

Mostly have the opposite sentiment. If Fuji stops there will be someone else to pick up the slack. Film is here to stay just like Muscle Cars and Tube Amplifiers.

I fully support you guys twirling away your time worrying about hypotheticals. Someone has to do it!

Just Kodak. From what I gathered back when Ilford's sSimon Galley was active at APUG and some of Adox's Mirko insights is that the industry is better with the large players in. Also that many color products are very advanced for smaller players to equal at this stage. Kodak, Fuji and some part of what Agfa is are the ones able to make color IIRC.


A follow up of my previous post, if this 30% is just the same increase announced for April but rolled in Japan then it will be fine. Two consecutive increases so closely would be too much.


As of Japan, I'm still quite baffled at the divergence in prices that there has been since 2014. Their prices on most films are quite expensive. However, I haven't really looked into factors like currency.

 

[Argentia1]

Perhaps, but consider the effort, the optimism and the greatly-expanded presence of film products at Fujifilm's space at the most recent Photokina. For the first time in recent memory, the space devoted to film has been enlarged to the point of occupying the majority of Fujifilm's booth there. A "sea change", if you will. Fujifilm's new marketing efforts, their workshops, their tie-ins to Instagram and other social media, their new minilab machines, their new website https:/www.ishootfujifilm.com and last but not least the artwork, the brochures and the posters all point to more than just a "copy and paste" effort. Several rff members were present at Photokina and we all came away impressed with the newly redoubled focus on film culture at Fujifilm.

Cheers, Robert

I completely agree with you, Robert.
I`ve visited the Photokina and other photo fairs for more than 20 years.
And Fujifilm's presentation was the most positive towards silver-halide products in the last eight years. And the best of all film manufacturers there by far. There is something changing to the positive, slowly, but it is happening.
We need all film manufacturers in the market. We neeed fair prices that cover all costs of production including new R&D and modernising of machinery. We need a certain level of competition and variaty for a healthy market. Therefore we should support by purchases all film manufacturers: Kodak, Fujifilm, Ilford, Adox, Foma. These companies, who really make film.

 

[brbo]

And concerning the price increase. Kodak has published recently that they made almost 20 million bucks loss last year with their film production.

Incorrect.

Please, read the actual document before spreading false information:

The decrease in Consumer and Film revenues of approximately $9 million reflected volume declines in Consumer Inkjet Systems ($9 million) driven by lower sales of ink to the existing installed base of printers, lower brand licensing revenue ($3 million) driven by the modification of a brand licensing agreement in the prior year offset by higher volume in Industrial Film and Chemicals ($2 million) primarily due to timing of customer orders and the favorable impact of currency
($2 million).

 

[HHPhoto]

Incorrect.

Nope.
I've referred to the detailed 2018 annual report - Segment Operational EBITDA and Consolidated Earnings and (Loss) from Continuing Operations before Income Taxes - and there is the data for the Consumer and Film segment: 19 million $ loss.
http://www.envisionreports.com/KODK/2019/20128FE19E/default.htm?voting=false

Just for the record: I am using Kodak films for decades, and I won't stop that. I don't like this data! And I hope they can improve the situation.

Cheers, Jan

 

[brbo]

Nope.
I've referred to the detailed 2018 annual report - Segment Operational EBITDA and Consolidated Earnings and (Loss) from Continuing Operations before Income Taxes - and there is the data for the Consumer and Film segment: 19 million $ loss.
http://www.envisionreports.com/KODK/2019/20128FE19E/default.htm?voting=false

Nope.

You said Kodak lost 20 million $ producing film. The document clearly states the loss in the consumer and Film group was NOT because of the film production.

Furthermore, Kodak even explicitly reported cost improvements in Motion Picture films (basically same technology as all their pro films) which makes your assumption (that Fuji's need for price increase is also evident in Kodak's film production) completely baseless.

Please note that I'm not saying that Fuji's stated inability to control the cost of traditional film production and therefore a need for minimum 30% price increase is a lie (although it most probably is just that), I'm just saying that other big manufacturer and Fuji's own similar products (Instax) obviously don't feel the same cost pressures. And Kodak WILL raise prices too since it makes no sense to compete with Fuji on prices.

 

[HHPhoto]

The document clearly states the loss in the consumer and Film group was NOT because of the film production.

Nope.
Just look at the numbers you have quoted. Is it possible to compensate the CFD loss with this little plus? No, of course not. It is just simple aritmetic. Your interpretation is wrong.
And I can ensure you that Kodak has an income problem with their photo films, because they subsidise high volume consumer CN film in some major markets, e.g. here in Germany.

Cheers, Jan

 

[brbo]

So Kodak lost 20 million in film production alone even though the financial report says otherwise and you are citing this same report as proof?!

Sigh.

 

[Skiff]

@brbo
@Jan
The consumer and film division has reported a loss of 19 million dollars (see page 93). That is right, but you both overlook a point:
For us as photographers it is of main interest whether the photo film production is profitable. And we cannot conclude that from the published data, because it is too much aggregated. The published info is not precise enough.
Therefore you should stop argumenting, it is a waste of time.

And I think much more important now is what will happen with Kodak Alaris: We all know it is for sale, Alaris made that statement to the public in January. They said they expect a deal until the end of March, but no news since then.

 

[RObert Budding]

Lol, I find all of this hilarious.

I have no worries about the future of Fujifilms or film in general.

Mostly have the opposite sentiment. If Fuji stops there will be someone else to pick up the slack. Film is here to stay just like Muscle Cars and Tube Amplifiers.

I fully support you guys twirling away your time worrying about hypotheticals. Someone has to do it!

So you don't see any differences in emulsions from various manufacturers? Film is just a widget, and any old one will do?

 

[Ted Striker]

Not a surprise at all. The news is almost 1 1/2 years old that Fuji had to stop ISO 800 film production.

Wrong. This news was made official all of two days ago.

Fujifilm discontinues yet another film. They have not gone a single year without discontinuing film(s) in 6 straight years.

http://ffis.fujifilm.co.jp/information/articlein_0090.html

 

[Skiff]

Wrong.

No.
Superia Venus 800 is Superia X-Tra 800. I've tested both side by side. With the discontuniation notice of X-Tra 800 it was clear that the Venus packaging of this film will follow.

Fujifilm discontinues yet another film.

No. They end a "Japan only" packaging. Venus was never officially offered in Europe e.g.. When X-Tra 800 was discontinued, some distributors started to import it from Japan by themselves.
And:
At Photokina Fujifilm published their future worldwide film line: Neither X-Tra 800 nor Venus 800 were on it. So everyone knows since then that Venus 800 will be gone when the current stock is sold.
So this is all very old news.

 

[jonmanjiro]

No. They end a "Japan only" packaging. Venus was never officially offered in Europe e.g.. <snip>
So this is all very old news.

I beg to differ. It may well be "very old news" to some, but in the Japanese domestic market, the news is just a few days old.

At Photokina Fujifilm published their future worldwide film line: Neither X-Tra 800 nor Venus 800 were on it.

What films were on it?

 

[Out to Lunch]

What films were on it?

Exactly, and where will it be available...

 

[ptpdprinter]

At Photokina Fujifilm published their future worldwide film line...

I don't remember any announcements to that effect from Photokina. Please share what they announced.