Rauti
Member
Dear RFF-community,
now the fuji is back from the repairshop for the third time.
And now the paralaxe-correction in the viewfinder doesn't move while turning the focus.
Is this camera going ever to be working again before film dies completely? :bang:
THE problem: I'm able to press the shutter, even if i forgot to use the advance-lever for the 2nd time. It results in images which are partly double-exposed. (and consequently the film counter gets all wrong..)
I'm shure that Fuji have prevented accidental pressing of the shutter when the film is not properly advanced (by pulling the lever 2 times).
Is that correct?
I want to be shure whats wrong before sending it in for the forth time.
Thank you for your help again,
cheers moritz
PS: Attached are two strips of negative
1) normal transportation
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...9/IMG_0001.jpg
2) false transportation
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...9/IMG_0002.jpg
now the fuji is back from the repairshop for the third time.
And now the paralaxe-correction in the viewfinder doesn't move while turning the focus.
Is this camera going ever to be working again before film dies completely? :bang:
THE problem: I'm able to press the shutter, even if i forgot to use the advance-lever for the 2nd time. It results in images which are partly double-exposed. (and consequently the film counter gets all wrong..)
I'm shure that Fuji have prevented accidental pressing of the shutter when the film is not properly advanced (by pulling the lever 2 times).
Is that correct?
I want to be shure whats wrong before sending it in for the forth time.
Thank you for your help again,
cheers moritz
PS: Attached are two strips of negative
1) normal transportation
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...9/IMG_0001.jpg
2) false transportation
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...9/IMG_0002.jpg
Lflex
Lflex
My GL690, which is older than the GW, can't fire unless the film is fully wound.
Dan Daniel
Well-known
I know it's hard to face, but it sounds as if this camera is a lost cause. I would start discussing things with the repair shop. Maybe you can find another one, and send it to them for a free overhaul.... although I guess I'd be wary of their work by this point.
A drop to hard ground is going to stress parts everywhere. Some bends will be obvious, some will be subtle. The GW690 isn't a particularly complex camera mechanically, but there are interlocks and such.
If it does go back, I would think that the double/half exposure prevention interlocks should be easy to adjust. And the parallax adjustment should be obvious, although rangefinder masks are finicky mechanisms. If everything is working well except for these two, and the repair shop is willing to try again, well......
Good luck. It's a great camera, when working
A drop to hard ground is going to stress parts everywhere. Some bends will be obvious, some will be subtle. The GW690 isn't a particularly complex camera mechanically, but there are interlocks and such.
If it does go back, I would think that the double/half exposure prevention interlocks should be easy to adjust. And the parallax adjustment should be obvious, although rangefinder masks are finicky mechanisms. If everything is working well except for these two, and the repair shop is willing to try again, well......
Good luck. It's a great camera, when working
Rauti
Member
Hey Dan,
thanks for your thoughts and ideas.
I'm so and so, now after one year of to-the-repairshop-and-back-with-alot-of-difficulties I don't want to give in on the last meters.
But for the last try I need to know if you can push the trigger on a fully-working Fuji even if the film hasn't been advanced to the next frame completely (by pulling the lever for ~1.5 times).
I cannot image this, because one accidental operation leads to ruined images)
Can someone with a GW690 give me feedback on this?
(I just want to make sure everythings correct, and not critized the repairshop for something that's normal working condition)
Thanks again!
cheers,
Moritz
thanks for your thoughts and ideas.
I'm so and so, now after one year of to-the-repairshop-and-back-with-alot-of-difficulties I don't want to give in on the last meters.
But for the last try I need to know if you can push the trigger on a fully-working Fuji even if the film hasn't been advanced to the next frame completely (by pulling the lever for ~1.5 times).
I cannot image this, because one accidental operation leads to ruined images)
Can someone with a GW690 give me feedback on this?
(I just want to make sure everythings correct, and not critized the repairshop for something that's normal working condition)
Thanks again!
cheers,
Moritz
Dan Daniel
Well-known
I sold my GW690 a few months ago, so I cannot do specific testing at the moment (bad mistake, will correct that in the next few months, maybe with a GSW this time).
I DO remember that I would sometimes not wind the film forward completely, meaning that I would not finish the second stroke. The reason I knew that I hadn't wound the film the full way is because the shutter wouldn't release when I tried to take the next shot. I would then need to wind the advance just a touch more to finish off the complete cocking action, and THEN I could release the shutter.
I NEVER had overlapping frames with my GW690. Again, telling me that the shutter would not release until the film was wound forward completely.
When operating the camera with no film in it and the back open for testing, I seem to remember that it is possible to release the shutter without two strokes. I think that the mechanism to prevent the shutter release until the film is wound forward is disabled when the door is open- probably based on the film roller below the shutter release area so inactive without film in place. I opened up the top of my GW690 to clean the rangefinder. I also cleaned the wind area and seem to remember some interlock using that film roller to drive it.
So I would say that yes, the shutter should not release until you have completed two full strokes with film in the camera.
Remember that the camera's behavior with and without film is different. Run a test roll to get true operation of the camera.
Hopefully someone else will confirm/correct my memories.
I DO remember that I would sometimes not wind the film forward completely, meaning that I would not finish the second stroke. The reason I knew that I hadn't wound the film the full way is because the shutter wouldn't release when I tried to take the next shot. I would then need to wind the advance just a touch more to finish off the complete cocking action, and THEN I could release the shutter.
I NEVER had overlapping frames with my GW690. Again, telling me that the shutter would not release until the film was wound forward completely.
When operating the camera with no film in it and the back open for testing, I seem to remember that it is possible to release the shutter without two strokes. I think that the mechanism to prevent the shutter release until the film is wound forward is disabled when the door is open- probably based on the film roller below the shutter release area so inactive without film in place. I opened up the top of my GW690 to clean the rangefinder. I also cleaned the wind area and seem to remember some interlock using that film roller to drive it.
So I would say that yes, the shutter should not release until you have completed two full strokes with film in the camera.
Remember that the camera's behavior with and without film is different. Run a test roll to get true operation of the camera.
Hopefully someone else will confirm/correct my memories.
kuzano
Veteran
That is by design....Intentional on build
That is by design....Intentional on build
There is a Roll/Sheet film switch on the back of the G690, G690bl and GL690. The camera was built NOT to allow the shutter to be depressed without film in the camera unless you switch to S for sheet film... there is a rather rare sheet film back for the Big Fujica's (6x9).
Repeat, you cannot dry fire the interchangeable lens bodies while the switch is on R for roll, and no film in the camera. Shutter button is locked in that situation.
I believe that is in the manual, along with the second biggest mistake users of these bodies make. Closing the door on a loose film on the take up spool, causing frame spacing problems and midroll jams.
I am not sure if that is what you are saying on not being able to shoot unless wound, but thought I would throw that out. I suspect that not being able to shoot when not fully wound is an intentional design feature of the G and GL Interchangeable lens models.
That is by design....Intentional on build
There is a Roll/Sheet film switch on the back of the G690, G690bl and GL690. The camera was built NOT to allow the shutter to be depressed without film in the camera unless you switch to S for sheet film... there is a rather rare sheet film back for the Big Fujica's (6x9).
Repeat, you cannot dry fire the interchangeable lens bodies while the switch is on R for roll, and no film in the camera. Shutter button is locked in that situation.
I believe that is in the manual, along with the second biggest mistake users of these bodies make. Closing the door on a loose film on the take up spool, causing frame spacing problems and midroll jams.
I am not sure if that is what you are saying on not being able to shoot unless wound, but thought I would throw that out. I suspect that not being able to shoot when not fully wound is an intentional design feature of the G and GL Interchangeable lens models.
Lflex
Lflex
Rauti, your camera is not operating correctly, there is no doubt about that.
Both the first and second advance stroke will move a levet that cocks the shutter, but at the second advance it is already cocked, so it doesn't matter. There must be something wrong with the preventive shutter release block, that shouldn't be released until the very end of the sencond advance - as Dan notes.
Whether or not you should give up on the tech depends on how easily they understand the problem and if they cover all your expenses sending the camera back and forth. If you have to use a lot of energy to explain this simple matter, you should find someone else IMO. I am always willing to give a repair facility a second chance and at rare circumstances a third, but if they treat me as if it is my incompetence causing the problem or if they show their own incompetence by having me explain how the camera should work, I demand a refund and take my business elsewhere.
Both the first and second advance stroke will move a levet that cocks the shutter, but at the second advance it is already cocked, so it doesn't matter. There must be something wrong with the preventive shutter release block, that shouldn't be released until the very end of the sencond advance - as Dan notes.
Whether or not you should give up on the tech depends on how easily they understand the problem and if they cover all your expenses sending the camera back and forth. If you have to use a lot of energy to explain this simple matter, you should find someone else IMO. I am always willing to give a repair facility a second chance and at rare circumstances a third, but if they treat me as if it is my incompetence causing the problem or if they show their own incompetence by having me explain how the camera should work, I demand a refund and take my business elsewhere.
Lflex
Lflex
I am aware of that, what I am saying is that you have to advance the lever two times (with film in the camera) to release the shutter. You cannot release the shutter after the first advance.
Hope it clarifies.
sevo
Fokutorendaburando
I have observed the second stroke on the GM670 to be pretty nominal towards the end of the roll. Given that I have experienced similar phenomena on Mamiyas, some film types (220, or 120 with thicker than usual film and correspondingly thinner cover paper) might only need a single stroke for the last frame on the 670 models.
KenR
Well-known
On my GSW690 only 2 full strokes of the winder will allow me to click the shutter. Something is wrong with yours.
Dan Daniel
Well-known
By the way, the Fuji repair manual describes the various mechanisms and interlocks that are used during film winding. It's on page 4 of the Gw690 repair manual. After two paragraphs of 'pawl A drops into slot B' type talk, the last words are, "...allowing the shutter to be released."
In other words, the shutter should not be able to be released until the full double winding is performed.
Tell the repair people to look over page 4 of the repair manual and follow it closely.
In other words, the shutter should not be able to be released until the full double winding is performed.
Tell the repair people to look over page 4 of the repair manual and follow it closely.