Alex Krasotkin
Well-known
I have M6 0.85 and M7 0.85 with 35/1.4 and 50/1.4 pre-asph and do not consider any digital at all. Plus film is still cheap in my country.
J. Borger
Well-known
I played with one in a shop today. No temptation at all.
I stick with film!
I stick with film!
Jobin
Established
Leica anything over fuji anything.
unixrevolution
Well-known
The Cult of Barnack?
celluloidprop
Well-known
I'll take a Fuji GF670 over Leica's medium-format rangefinder.
Lax Jought
Well-known
I chose the M8 because:
(i) I like manual focusing and the X1 has is not really geared for manual focusing, having to spin the focus dial a long way to get from one end to the other. In any case its autofocus is sluggish (according to the reviews).
(ii) I like the rangefinder focusing, it allows me to get into really low light focusing.
I may have been persuaded with the X1 if it had good video functions though, not unfortunately it does not.
(i) I like manual focusing and the X1 has is not really geared for manual focusing, having to spin the focus dial a long way to get from one end to the other. In any case its autofocus is sluggish (according to the reviews).
(ii) I like the rangefinder focusing, it allows me to get into really low light focusing.
I may have been persuaded with the X1 if it had good video functions though, not unfortunately it does not.
taxi38
Taxi Driver
To be honest I, and others I think,werent waiting for a clone of an M9, we were waiting for a cheap copy with a proper rangefinder and some small ish manual focus lenses.
Ok, so not a clone, but you are waiting for something only Leica makes right now (and maybe Epson is still trickling out).
My point is that people are placing hopes for mechanical digital rangefinders in the wrong cameras (i.e. nex7, xpro1, etc)... and then getting upset when they don't deliver. It's silly.
Spyro
Well-known
Unfortunately no digital camera currently in production is geared for manual focusing, only the M9. In every other camera (and I mean all of them) manual focusing is only a secondary concern, sort of a half arsed added bonus, and it will always suffer from the fact that the camera is primarily designed for AF. For example FF DSLRs are sort of OK for MF but still their viewfinders will never be as big and bright as they could (and should) be for MF because the mirror has to be half-silvered to allow some light to the AF sensor located behind it. Means less light in the VF.
It's not a design problem though, it is primarily a financial one. The MF following is small and attached to leica, zeiss and CV who make quality MF glass for all budgets. To grab that market you'd have to allow them to use their lenses, which means nobody would buy yours. So the only ones with an interest in making a camera for manual focus lenses are the makers of such lenses: zeiss (who are out of the digital game for their own reasons) and CV/epson (who got burned with the RD1 and I dont think they're going there again anytime soon). Which means we're stuck with Leica, which is awesome, except for one little detail.
Or, to be precise, 6,995 little details
aldenfender
Established
Havent read all the way through this thread but has anyone heard of the "aperature chatter" (?) problem with the 35 lens... I think it is... Not sure if that can be corrected but it turned me off as far as attraction to the camera. I miss my m8 and will oneday head back in that direction but for now, I'm taking a break back into film.
The aperature chatter I heard of was mentioned and demostrated in this video...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqtPURabBac&feature=player_embedded
at around 4:35
The aperature chatter I heard of was mentioned and demostrated in this video...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqtPURabBac&feature=player_embedded
at around 4:35
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXmdXdw7wkQ
It can be disabled if it's a bother.
Same thing happens with other mirrorless cams.
More here
It can be disabled if it's a bother.
Same thing happens with other mirrorless cams.
More here
taxi38
Taxi Driver
Agree completely.
thechungster
Newbie
I tried the X-Pro 1 with the 35mm lens today and generally, I thought it was a very nice camera. It's build is definitely enough for me. It feels light but nice. Everybody seems to be complaining about the build quality but it has a nice weight to it and it's well made. No creaks in the metal etc..It also fits into my small hands quite nicely.
As for operation, the viewfinder is quite nice and I do like the different magnification concept. EVF is so so, not as good as the Sony's OLED EVF but still not too bad. The OVF is a bit smaller than what I'm used to, but I guess it makes it a lot easier for me as I wear big thick rimmed glasses that causes problems when looking through most viewfinders.
AF is speed is not lightening quick, but seemed to focus on most things I aimed at. You have to press the macro button for objects <1m away but it works. The aperture dial, even though is by wire, feels smooth to use and is nice.
For IQ, i'm sure we've seen plenty of samples online and when testing it out, the bokeh looked very pleasing and creamy when wide open. Overall, even though I haven't tried the M8, I like this camera quite a bit and am considering it. I really do like the rangefinder way of composing, and replacing manual focusing with a so-so AF is fine by me.
As for operation, the viewfinder is quite nice and I do like the different magnification concept. EVF is so so, not as good as the Sony's OLED EVF but still not too bad. The OVF is a bit smaller than what I'm used to, but I guess it makes it a lot easier for me as I wear big thick rimmed glasses that causes problems when looking through most viewfinders.
AF is speed is not lightening quick, but seemed to focus on most things I aimed at. You have to press the macro button for objects <1m away but it works. The aperture dial, even though is by wire, feels smooth to use and is nice.
For IQ, i'm sure we've seen plenty of samples online and when testing it out, the bokeh looked very pleasing and creamy when wide open. Overall, even though I haven't tried the M8, I like this camera quite a bit and am considering it. I really do like the rangefinder way of composing, and replacing manual focusing with a so-so AF is fine by me.
Lax Jought
Well-known
Unfortunately no digital camera currently in production is geared for manual focusing, only the M9. In every other camera (and I mean all of them) manual focusing is only a secondary concern, sort of a half arsed added bonus, and it will always suffer from the fact that the camera is primarily designed for AF. For example FF DSLRs are sort of OK for MF but still their viewfinders will never be as big and bright as they could (and should) be for MF because the mirror has to be half-silvered to allow some light to the AF sensor located behind it. Means less light in the VF.
It's not a design problem though, it is primarily a financial one. The MF following is small and attached to leica, zeiss and CV who make quality MF glass for all budgets. To grab that market you'd have to allow them to use their lenses, which means nobody would buy yours. So the only ones with an interest in making a camera for manual focus lenses are the makers of such lenses: zeiss (who are out of the digital game for their own reasons) and CV/epson (who got burned with the RD1 and I dont think they're going there again anytime soon). Which means we're stuck with Leica, which is awesome, except for one little detail.
Or, to be precise, 6,995 little details
Good points.
I've been photographing with the M8.2 for over a year now, really happy with it but lately I've been hankering for full frame and the option of being able to go higher than ISO640 in very low light.
I toyed with the idea of the X1 but I don't think I get around the rangefinder focusing though, and I've really, really grown accustomed to manual focusing. I've been sporadically taking my Canon 7D out in the past couple of months, and the AF has been frustratingly ... frustrating. I mean, there's absolutely nothing wrong with the AF technology but in some circumstances I can focus faster now, with more accuracy and I can also do it in very low light which the 7D cannot do, period.
gdi
Veteran
Interesting thing about this camera - it ends up that supply is more than enough to meet demand ( with the exception if that 60mm lens), but I see a number for sale at full retail or even more. Maybe there were a lot of speculators who got burned?
Eric T
Well-known
I own both cameras and to me, it is no contest. The Fujifilm X-Pro1 is vastly better than the Leica M8. Several years of technology separate the two, so this makes sense. But let me list a few of the X-Pro1 advantages over the M8:
1. No lens coding needed.
2. No IR filters needed.
3. Automated sensor cleaning.
4. Autofocus.
5. Much quieter shutter.
6. Much, much better low light sensitivity.
7. Higher resolution sensor.
8. Vastly cheaper prime lenses.
9. Live view.
10. Much better LCD screen.
11. Mugh lighter weight of camera and lenses.
12. More accurate automatic white balance.
The few advantages of the M8 over the X-Pro1:
1. Slightly larger sensor.
2. 1/8000 sec shutter speed.
3. Rangefinder focusing.
4. Many lenses available in the M-mount (but all of them can be used on the Fuji with an adapter.
Enjoy both - both make great images.
1. No lens coding needed.
2. No IR filters needed.
3. Automated sensor cleaning.
4. Autofocus.
5. Much quieter shutter.
6. Much, much better low light sensitivity.
7. Higher resolution sensor.
8. Vastly cheaper prime lenses.
9. Live view.
10. Much better LCD screen.
11. Mugh lighter weight of camera and lenses.
12. More accurate automatic white balance.
The few advantages of the M8 over the X-Pro1:
1. Slightly larger sensor.
2. 1/8000 sec shutter speed.
3. Rangefinder focusing.
4. Many lenses available in the M-mount (but all of them can be used on the Fuji with an adapter.
Enjoy both - both make great images.
Lax Jought
Well-known
Amazing photographs will be can and have been taken with both cameras, no doubt.
Frontman
Well-known
You can manually focus manual lenses on the X-Pro if you care to adapt them, and they will focus as quickly as they ever did. In Auto, it focuses more quickly and with greater accuracy than any manual focus camera.
As for low light focusing, the X-Pro can literally see in the dark.
As for video, can you mention any manual focus digital camera, rangefinder or SLR which does it?
Lax Jought
Well-known
Also an adaptor with M lenses will work.
I've been reading reviews that the AF is pretty sluggish though? Re greater accuracy in manual focusing, that might be a moot point as it comes down to the photographer, not the camera.
How is it compared to the 7D? Out of curiosity, because that is my point of reference. I am biased towards rangefinder focusing though, where I get to see through the viewfinder without being limited by the aperture of a lens.
I'm not sure what you mean here? Lots of other cameras have a video function, some good, some bad. The Canon 5D MkIII is right at the top of the heap at the moment, having resolved aliasing/moire issues for the most part, at a price point that is reasonable. The X1 as I understand it has gone the other way by not having an anti-aliasing filter at all and does not offer full manual control.