Juan Valdenebro
Truth is beauty
Thanks, I just saw your post in the other thread...
Does a camera like that (with aperture control) but with real manual focus through a rangefinder (and flat fix lens) exist?
Cheers,
Juan
Alpacaman
keen bean
I'm now confused. Why can't an AF lens have real manual focus? I don't see why not, plenty already do.
Edit: Oh wait, I see. I misinterpreted "real manual focus" as to mean mechanical focus linkage, not RF focus. Disregard this comment.
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Leigh Youdale
Well-known
But wait a minute!
I got all excited and frothy too when I read about this - and then I realised I have a Bessa R3A in my car's glove box with the 40/1.4 Nokton lens and about the only thing that the Fuji X100 does "better" is that it's digital. (Assuming digital is 'better')
In every other respect the Bessa is as competent - even better in that it allows lens changes. Great viewfinder, auto or manual exposure, manual focus (sure, that's a killer if you need auto - not!) compact size, excellent prime lens (faster than the Fuji).
But the Bessa uses film.
I like film!
So, sure, the Fuji is an interesting development but my money (whatever it costs) is staying in the bank because I've already got a camera that does the same thing (except for digital and I can scan the negs). What I would lay out for is the Fuji GF670W!
But it surely tipped a bucket on Leica's announcement (whatever that was).
I got all excited and frothy too when I read about this - and then I realised I have a Bessa R3A in my car's glove box with the 40/1.4 Nokton lens and about the only thing that the Fuji X100 does "better" is that it's digital. (Assuming digital is 'better')
In every other respect the Bessa is as competent - even better in that it allows lens changes. Great viewfinder, auto or manual exposure, manual focus (sure, that's a killer if you need auto - not!) compact size, excellent prime lens (faster than the Fuji).
But the Bessa uses film.
I like film!
So, sure, the Fuji is an interesting development but my money (whatever it costs) is staying in the bank because I've already got a camera that does the same thing (except for digital and I can scan the negs). What I would lay out for is the Fuji GF670W!
But it surely tipped a bucket on Leica's announcement (whatever that was).
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Frankie
Speaking Frankly
From my experience...and logical deduction:
There is no third [infinity] window, no second [illumination] window, only the OVF window...so, no RF patch, no adjustments, no CLA, no frameline arguments...
The OVF is just for viewing...use AF for focusing.
Alternatively, use the EVF for viewing, focusing [there is a mini-frameline for the AF aim point (?)], DoF...even histogram chimping.
The EVF should work exactly like the Pany or Oly EVF, via AF or manual turning of the lens focusing ring (?); or thumb dial [located where your right thumb would normally be].
The EVF at 1.4M dots is likely the Epson 800 x 600 x 3 (RGB) 12u EVF panel.
See: http://www.dpreview.com/news/0910/09101501epsonhtpspanel.asp
gavinlg
Veteran
Nope, not since the fixed lens rangefinders of 30-40 years ago.
I expect the AF of this camera to be very competent.
I expect the AF of this camera to be very competent.
Frankie
Speaking Frankly
You forgot one thing...film/processing/scanning are recurring downstream costs. In my part of the world, it is ~$1/exp for B/W.
We cannot make film, even you process/scan your own, there are still 2/3 the cost to pay...assuming your time has no value, or you enjoy the tasks.
Leigh Youdale
Well-known
But I do! It's a hobby and I'm not interested in a race to find the cheapest film/developer/print/image combination. I enjoy the process and I'm retired.
Digital is convenient at times - which is why I have a GF1 at the back of the shelf - but that's about the only benefit of digital for me. If I was a professional wedding photographer, for example, then the name of the game changes completely and I'd be using a full frame DSLR.
tlitody
Well-known
I gotta say that Fuji are using their model name of X100 to poke fun at Leica by just adding a couple of zeros to the X1.
And given that the Fuji top of the range IS PRO dslr is only £800 in the UK and their top of the range compact is less than £400, then I'd guess this new camera will be less than £500 which should make Leica sick as a parrot.
I don't beleive fuji are aiming this camera at the pro market. It is aimed squarely at the mass market by having video in it. The price will tell all. If its £500 or less then its definitely aimed at mass market and they are using the aimed at pro to make people beleive they are getting a pro model for a bargain which may well be the case if the IQ is very high.
But until people have seen how good or bad the viewfinder is, what the low light performance is, how fast it focuses etc etc we really won't know.
And given that the Fuji top of the range IS PRO dslr is only £800 in the UK and their top of the range compact is less than £400, then I'd guess this new camera will be less than £500 which should make Leica sick as a parrot.
I don't beleive fuji are aiming this camera at the pro market. It is aimed squarely at the mass market by having video in it. The price will tell all. If its £500 or less then its definitely aimed at mass market and they are using the aimed at pro to make people beleive they are getting a pro model for a bargain which may well be the case if the IQ is very high.
But until people have seen how good or bad the viewfinder is, what the low light performance is, how fast it focuses etc etc we really won't know.
Leigh Youdale
Well-known
So Fuji are going to be getting your money one way or the other ... they've won!
Yes, in a manner of speaking, but then I'd be thinking I'd also won which would be a good outcome all round! I can put my BIII ambitions on hold, keep my Rolleiflex with its 2.8/80 Planar lens and have an MF 6x6 or 6x7 with equivalent to a 28mm lens as well. That's starting to sound attractive.
The only thing that would be better is if the GF670W came out with a lens panel that could be removed and with other lens/shutter combinations on offer, already mounted on a panel that goes straight on the front of the camera. If the lenses and leaf shutters were integrated units and there was a plug in electrical contact for the meter and shutter release on each lens panel, plus a rangefinder cam mechanism it would a very versatile MF camera. The lens/shutter units would not be cheap but it is aimed more at the professional level and other MF cameras have used this design feature before - Mamiya for one.
Juan Valdenebro
Truth is beauty
I agree... More than $1000 for that camera is an absurd price... It's a compact fix lens APS-C hobbyist camera... For sure it can make great photos, but certainly has lots of limits an M9 or an R-D1 or a DSLR don't have...
It will sell well because common people won't need to focus and they'll move the aperture to f/2 and with a background blur they'll feel like photographers easily...
That's what sells cameras these days because that's what the first millions and millions of compact digitals everybody had couldn't do... And it's cool for them, but it should not cost $1800...Cheers,
Juan
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Archlich
Well-known
People asking for a digital Hexar (which it is, probably) are satisfied. And then came some who are trying to figure a M10 out of this, and they complain for the lack of interchangeable lens, rangefinder patch, DoF scale, etc. ...
Aren't we just asking too much of it?
Aren't we just asking too much of it?
Al Patterson
Ferroequinologist
cny3123
Established
This thread is insane, constantly being updated every time I check back in 5 minutes or so! Other forums are definitely showing interest, but not to this degree!
And to add on.. Definitely am interested in this, price dependent! I have wished for a digital replacement for my 35SP many a time! Have not been completely won over by the NEX, or µ4/3 offerings..
And to add on.. Definitely am interested in this, price dependent! I have wished for a digital replacement for my 35SP many a time! Have not been completely won over by the NEX, or µ4/3 offerings..
tlitody
Well-known
now don't get carried away. The sensor is an incremental update. the lens is probably just another good fuji lens like a lot they have made. Its not full format sensor. The only thing really new is the viewfinder and thats hardly anything stunning, especially if you don't want a digital viewfinder. So I see no reason why it should cost a lot. They can't possibly make a point and shoot their flagship camera. The general public won't see it that way. Only some rangefinder users might see a P&S as the ultimate camera.
You sound disappointed that £500 camera might be so good. I rekon you should wait to find out if the proof of the pudding is in the eating. It might be a dog.
Juan Valdenebro
Truth is beauty
tlitody
Well-known
Well if they are pointing it at the serious hobbyist to maybe pro, then that likely indicates that pricing will be significantly more than their current point and shoot cameras. Thats why I rekon £500. Thats 25% more than current top of the P&S range.
Filson Back
Established
I want to see sample shots. Heck--I just want a ZI.
aizan
Veteran
i also expect the price to be on the high side. fuji's niche is cameras for photography enthusiasts and pros who either have money to spare to get something unique or want certain eccentric things bad enough to save up for it.
some people will think it's ridiculous, but i've pretty much decided that the design is so ugly, i'm not going to buy it. it's a non-starter. i like old stuff, but i don't like new stuff that looks like a lousy copy of old stuff. if it's a great "copy," well, that's not really a copy at all, but a new design inspired by the past. the product designers at fuji took a risk, but the design is a failure, imo. gotta give them that, at least.
also, it's probably just my disgust at the design, but i doubt that the contrast detect autofocus or manual focus aids will cut it for me. a DOF scale in the viewfinder is not the same as a DOF scale on the lens, and a plain focusing ring is not the same as one with a focusing tab. i can only hope ricoh gets their act together and puts passive af in a similarly viewfindered camera.
anyhow, just venting. maybe i'll change my mind later.
some people will think it's ridiculous, but i've pretty much decided that the design is so ugly, i'm not going to buy it. it's a non-starter. i like old stuff, but i don't like new stuff that looks like a lousy copy of old stuff. if it's a great "copy," well, that's not really a copy at all, but a new design inspired by the past. the product designers at fuji took a risk, but the design is a failure, imo. gotta give them that, at least.
also, it's probably just my disgust at the design, but i doubt that the contrast detect autofocus or manual focus aids will cut it for me. a DOF scale in the viewfinder is not the same as a DOF scale on the lens, and a plain focusing ring is not the same as one with a focusing tab. i can only hope ricoh gets their act together and puts passive af in a similarly viewfindered camera.
anyhow, just venting. maybe i'll change my mind later.
Frankie
Speaking Frankly
I don't understand this price thing. Many RFF members wouldn't mind selling their souls for a piece of Solms/Wetzlar myth but balk at pricing of others. A "user" condition Leica M with a similar condition Leica 35mm lens will cost more that the X100 brand new.
I know, I know...true Leicaphiles love film, yet they want M8/9/10/11...