Fuji X100T - Rangefinder or not?

[JohnTF]

Really, there are two camps here. One camp uses the term "rangefinder" in a technical sense. The other camp uses the term in an emotional sense. Hence the talking-past-one-another.

Really, too simple and not long winded enough. ;-)

Folks also seem to overlook that all but early separate rangefinders are essentially not used to find the distance in common usage, but rather simply to focus the camera. Perhaps if you are not looking at the scale, they are not rangefinders, but MFC? (mechanically focusing cameras)

Perhaps it is like Porn, it cannot always be defined, but you seem to know them when you see them?

Regards, John

 

[btgc]

Perhaps it is like Porn, it cannot always be defined, but you seem to know them when you see them?

So you want to say one kind of cameras is a porn, right? And now big questions is which kind exactly 🙂

I highly agree to semilog

>Really, there are two camps here. One camp uses the term "rangefinder" in a technical sense. The other camp uses the term in an emotional sense.

But as I get older I feel I like to move on so don't want attach myself of present to myself of past so I wouldn't call my mirrorless or compact a rangefinder, had I one. With DSLR it's too obvious....

Weren't 35mm rangefinders first compact mass produced 35mm cameras so they made a revolution in spontaneous use of them? Digital cameras, OK most of them, all are compact and easy to use without attracting lots of attention so they all have characteristic which raised rangefinders over less portable cameras - small, casually looking and not scaring crowd.

 

[JohnTF]

So you want to say one kind of cameras is a porn, right? And now big questions is which kind exactly 🙂

I highly agree to semilog

>Really, there are two camps here. One camp uses the term "rangefinder" in a technical sense. The other camp uses the term in an emotional sense.

But as I get older I feel I like to move on so don't want attach myself of present to myself of past so I wouldn't call my mirrorless or compact a rangefinder, had I one. With DSLR it's too obvious....

Weren't 35mm rangefinders first compact mass produced 35mm cameras so they made a revolution in spontaneous use of them? Digital cameras, OK most of them, all are compact and easy to use without attracting lots of attention so they all have characteristic which raised rangefinders over less portable cameras - small, casually looking and not scaring crowd.

I agree, a camera to be of best use to me, has to be with me, and though the attracting attention may well vary with culture, I would generally prefer for the most part to be more subtle. The times I want more than say a 90mm, I would feel better with an Slr, though, this may change soon. I hear good things in the advances of EVF, most so far fall short of what I prefer.

Regards, John

 

[JohnTF]

Dear John,

A Pentax with a separate rangefinder? I've never encountered that one, though of course the early Alpa rangefinder/reflex cameras are well known. I think the Model 7 with the vertical RF was the last.

Cheers,

R.

Roger,
In my early days, Asahi cameras were imported by Honeywell, and even if you were stopped by customs, they would deface the name crudely with a screwdriver or some such.

The Asahiflex I found, is very compact, the lens mount seems a bit tighter than LTM, it does not have a prism, but a pop up reflex finder, and an additional optical finder mounted on top-- which is not RF coupled, so it is an SLR and a Viewfinder -- actually a rather nicely put together compact camera-- However, as the other than US cameras were Asahi Pentax, I merged this Asahi SLR with Pentax-- at least in my thinking.

Regards, John

I see with a little research that Asahiflex changed their name to Asahi Pentax after this model.

 

[Addy101]

It is a M37 mount Asahiflex, more on that on the Pentaxforums database

 

[JohnTF]

It is a M37 mount Asahiflex, more on that on the Pentaxforums database

Exactly, though some seem to put it at 36mm, mine must be one of the later ones as it has the instant return mirror.

It is said to have some of the features of a Leica III-- Perhaps why it does fit well in the hand.

I might be prone to either scale focus, or focus with the screen and use the viewfinder if I were shooting with it.

As I added above, the company changed the name to Pentax after this model.

Regards, John

 

[Scrambler]

As I added above, the company changed the name to Pentax after this model. Regards, John

Well after this model. Pentax was a model and then a brand, but Asahi Optical Company was the manufacturer until 2002.

Pentax refers to the pentaprism, a rare feature indeed when the first Pentax was released.

 

[JohnTF]

Well after this model. Pentax was a model and then a brand, but Asahi Optical Company was the manufacturer until 2002.

Pentax refers to the pentaprism, a rare feature indeed when the first Pentax was released.

Thanks,

I was not very clear, what was meant was they changed the name of the camera to Pentax.

Some were sold with Tower labels from Sears, and of course, Honeywell had their names on the Pentaxs I first saw and owned-- I saw more than one with Asahi Pentax scratched off by customs--

I still prefer cameras with viewfinders, optical preferred, except for use with long lenses.

At the shop, we had another "Tower", and removed the label to reveal Ricoh. Upon returning it to Ricoh for service, they said it was rare and not in their collection, so they returned a new camera in its place.

I seemed only to personally see in my hands the worst of Tower badged kit. ;-)

Regards, John

 

[bobvS]

How about rangefinder "style"

How about rangefinder "style"

Does anyone know why the viewfinder changes to B&W when i choose a B&W film simulation? is there a way to turn that off?

bob

 

[dct]

Does anyone know why the viewfinder changes to B&W when i choose a B&W film simulation? is there a way to turn that off?

bob

Because you activated the Electronic VF (or you are in macro mode which switches mandatory to EVF). Switch back to Optical VF and then you have a similar view like any other classic VF camera.

Similar to the back display, the EVF shows how the image will look like after recording, including any simulations and amplifications you keyed in. If you want the unaffected view to real world stay at OVF.

 

[willie_901]

Does anyone know why the viewfinder changes to B&W when i choose a B&W film simulation? is there a way to turn that off?

bob

Yes, use the OVF instead of the EVF.

 

[JoeLopez]

Electronic rangefinder, but a rangefinder nonetheless -by definition and by function. Fuji does indeed refer to it as such.

This ^^

The X100/S/T/F are rangerfinder cameras.

To those who do not believe them to be, what about it leads you to that view?

Interesting take on the topic:
http://www.thephoblographer.com/2014/09/11/phoblographer-explains-rangefinder-camera/

 

[David Hughes]

I blame sellers on ebay, a lot think anything that's not an obvious SLR is a RF. I think a RF's a gadget you fit in the accessory shoe and cameras like the Leica II are CRF's or Coupled Range Finders. BTW In the 30's Leitz called them Auto Focal...

Many AF cameras use CRF's look at the µ-I with its two RF windows above the lens. The AF X100 has one window (so not a CRF) and the spec. says auto contrast detection or something.

Regards, David

 

[Ko.Fe.]

The X100/S/T/F are rangerfinder cameras.

To those who do not believe them to be, what about it leads you to that view?
...

Anyone who took real rangefinder camera apart, serviced it and put it back knows what the rangefinder is.

Fuji is not rangefinder. It is optical viewfinder camera with electronics images projected into it. Sure, you could fake rangefinder with electronics. But where is no optical/mechanical rangefinder in Fujis.

If battery goes out in digital Leica with real rangefinder or camera is turned off, rangefinder still works. Turn Fuji off, "rangefinder" is gone.

 

[willie_901]

Technically FUJIFILM uses a "Reverse Galilean viewfinder: Unlike the telescope designed by Galileo Galilei, the converging lens is placed on the eyepiece side and the concave lens is placed on the objective side. By adopting the Reverse Galilean viewfinder, a bright and clear viewfinder can be made."

Because the optical finder is physically offset from the lens, parallax obtains.

So, as with a rangefinder camera, the FUJIFILM OVFs offer bright-line framing that estimates parallax corrections. As with a rangefinder camera, the FUJIFILM OVF enables one to see outside the frame in real-time with no delay. There are compact prime lenses. The newest FUJIFILM bodies and lenses even offer an acceptable manual focus option (compared to older models that didn't).

I do not consider FUJIFILM hybrid-finder cameras to be rangefinders.

What's important to me is I use them as I used rangefinder cameras. I enjoy operating a camera that replicates the rangefinder experience.

Why don't I just use an actual RF camera? That's another story. But I will say it has nothing to do with money.

 

[JoeLopez]

Anyone who took real rangefinder camera apart, serviced it and put it back knows what the rangefinder is.

Fuji is not rangefinder. It is optical viewfinder camera with electronics images projected into it. Sure, you could fake rangefinder with electronics. But where is no optical/mechanical rangefinder in Fujis.

If battery goes out in digital Leica with real rangefinder or camera is turned off, rangefinder still works. Turn Fuji off, "rangefinder" is gone.

While I can appreciate that reasoning, I view the X100 cameras as an evolution of the rangefinder camera. Good discussion nonetheless.