sooner
Well-known
Hi Folks,
Happy New Year. I shoot 6x6 mf with a Minolta Autocord and 6x9 with a handmade body made in Japan, but I'm thinking about something more portable, which probably means 645 format. Both the Fuji 645zi and the Bronica RF645 get rave reviews, though the Bronica is surely more expensive. What do you all think in choosing between these two cameras, and is the Bronica becoming riskier due to repairability issues? Also, what's a decent price these days for the Bronica? Seems prices on the Bay have been fairly high recently. Thanks in advance. --John/sooner
Happy New Year. I shoot 6x6 mf with a Minolta Autocord and 6x9 with a handmade body made in Japan, but I'm thinking about something more portable, which probably means 645 format. Both the Fuji 645zi and the Bronica RF645 get rave reviews, though the Bronica is surely more expensive. What do you all think in choosing between these two cameras, and is the Bronica becoming riskier due to repairability issues? Also, what's a decent price these days for the Bronica? Seems prices on the Bay have been fairly high recently. Thanks in advance. --John/sooner
srtiwari
Daktari
Hi John,
I have a RF645 Bronica , and a Fuji GA645. Apart from the obvious differences- AF, Lens changeability etc., I like the feel of the RF645 more. It is a more solid feeling, deliberate machine. The Fuji is a more quick, plasticky, P&S type body. But the photos are equally sharp. BTW, the 'portrait' format with the camera held normally takes some getting used to. Also, I don't know that repairability is an issue with the Bronica.
Subhash
I have a RF645 Bronica , and a Fuji GA645. Apart from the obvious differences- AF, Lens changeability etc., I like the feel of the RF645 more. It is a more solid feeling, deliberate machine. The Fuji is a more quick, plasticky, P&S type body. But the photos are equally sharp. BTW, the 'portrait' format with the camera held normally takes some getting used to. Also, I don't know that repairability is an issue with the Bronica.
Subhash
kuzano
Veteran
Repairability on Bronica question is for Tamron
Repairability on Bronica question is for Tamron
Since Bronica was last owned by Tamron, you may want to pose the possibility of repair to Tamron support. It would be interesting to know how many RF645 Bronicas were actually ever sold.
I think the RF645 was a nice idea and may be a very nice camera, but it did not last long in the market, and it died out somewhat before decisions were made to discontinue models based on digital impact on the market. The 100mm lens is near impossible to find. The prices are atrocious. If I wanted a reasonably priced 645, with lens interchangability, I would buy a Bronica ETRSi with two or three lenses for the price of an RF645 with one lens. Furthermore, it would shoot landscape. A little bulkier yes, but not prohibitively so.
I've had a couple of GA645Zi. If they are plasticy, they sure have the heft of an all metal camera. The zoom range equates to 3 of the most popular lengths in the 645 frame size. Probably a little short on the long end, but you are only packing one camera. It's reliable, fast meter and picture capture, and Sharp. My Fuji's have always matched or outshot my Bronicas. The Zi also has a token flash, but it works for close fill lighting and portrait work.
I'm not much of a lens switcher in the field. I can carry two or three lenses, but I usually come home with the lens on the camera that I left home with. That's why I would tend to favor the zoom. Not to mention getting twigs, small animals and lots of dirt inside the camera with interchangable lenses.
Repairability on Bronica question is for Tamron
Since Bronica was last owned by Tamron, you may want to pose the possibility of repair to Tamron support. It would be interesting to know how many RF645 Bronicas were actually ever sold.
I think the RF645 was a nice idea and may be a very nice camera, but it did not last long in the market, and it died out somewhat before decisions were made to discontinue models based on digital impact on the market. The 100mm lens is near impossible to find. The prices are atrocious. If I wanted a reasonably priced 645, with lens interchangability, I would buy a Bronica ETRSi with two or three lenses for the price of an RF645 with one lens. Furthermore, it would shoot landscape. A little bulkier yes, but not prohibitively so.
I've had a couple of GA645Zi. If they are plasticy, they sure have the heft of an all metal camera. The zoom range equates to 3 of the most popular lengths in the 645 frame size. Probably a little short on the long end, but you are only packing one camera. It's reliable, fast meter and picture capture, and Sharp. My Fuji's have always matched or outshot my Bronicas. The Zi also has a token flash, but it works for close fill lighting and portrait work.
I'm not much of a lens switcher in the field. I can carry two or three lenses, but I usually come home with the lens on the camera that I left home with. That's why I would tend to favor the zoom. Not to mention getting twigs, small animals and lots of dirt inside the camera with interchangable lenses.
ChrisPlatt
Thread Killer
When the RF645 was discontinued in October 2005, Tamron USA
announced they would service it for 7 years, or until October 2012.
The RF645 is a wonderful camera, and the dedicated flash is terrific.
Chris
announced they would service it for 7 years, or until October 2012.
The RF645 is a wonderful camera, and the dedicated flash is terrific.
Chris
sooner
Well-known
Thanks for the replies so far. I held the Bronica RF645 and the Mamiya 7 at B&H Photo in NY, and the Bronica was perfect to me, obviously well made with a fabulous bright finder. I've also owned a Fuji GA645 but stupidly sold it, partly because I wanted a wider angle. At least now I know if I shoot for the more expensive Bronica, I can get it serviced. But even through KEH it's a good bit more expensive than the Fuji. So it's not an easy call.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
I've never laid eyes on the opposition cameras but to me the Bronica seems perfect. Ergonomically it just plain works for me and it's no harder to hold and shoot than a good SLR or rangefinder. As stated the camera could be handicapped by future service issues ... and the other pain in the butt ... trying to find a 100mm lens if you want to do portraits!:bang:
Also if you do a search through the relevant forums here you will notice that there is rather a lot of mention of occasional frame advancing issues ... this appears to be the only weak point of the camera and I'm not convinced mine is completely right in spite of the fact it's just been CLA'd by Tamron in the US!
Also if you do a search through the relevant forums here you will notice that there is rather a lot of mention of occasional frame advancing issues ... this appears to be the only weak point of the camera and I'm not convinced mine is completely right in spite of the fact it's just been CLA'd by Tamron in the US!
Turtle
Veteran
Beuild nad ergonomics of the RF645 are incredible. I have not used a Zi so will not comment there. Optically the RF645 lenses are blinding, even wide open. The portrait format is no issue for me personally although if you are doing a lot of landscape format shots it can be a touch annoying esp working off a tripod, but of course the converse is also true! Sharp, flare resistant lenses, reliable (mine have been) and the exposure compensation is simply PERFECT. I love mine.
Tuolumne
Veteran
sooner said:
I have the Fuji 645zi. It's as close as you can come to a medium format point-and-shoot camera.
The lens is incredibly, but I mean INCREDIBLY, sharp. It can have a hard time close focusing, other than that it's perfect. As light and portable as a 35mm rangefinder, too./T
sooner
Well-known
Thanks for all the comments. Basically these are both very nice cameras, so it's probably going to come down to cost. The Fuji should be several hundred less than the Fuji, and at this price that is significant, at least to me. Still, I prefer the more manual Bronica, and having held one at B&H can say it did feel like the perfect camera in my hands. Once again, too many cameras, too little money!
Abbazz
6x9 and be there!
I agree with Tuolumne. I have the Fuji 645zi and this is a fantastic point and shoot camera. It also delivers the best negatives I have ever seen short of a 6x9 or LF camera. If you have limited funds, go for the Fuji.
Cheers!
Abbazz
Cheers!
Abbazz
tensai
Established
Right now, on keh.com you can get a Bronica RF645 in ex condition for $920 and a Fuji GA645Zi in ex condition for $850. I think price difference right now shouldn't be a deciding factor.
I own both of these cameras, both are very nicely designed, deliver very very good results and both have their idiosyncrasies.
The biggest deciding factor if you ask me is;
'Do you want a point and shoot, or do you want a fully manual camera?'
Yes the Fuji can do manual, and do it well, but it's certainly not its strong point.
The Bronica you can put in P mode and the metering is terrific, but you still have to focus.
So both of these cameras can do point and shoot and manual to a certain degree, but still in the end, if you place them side by side, I would say you buy the Fuji cause you mainly want a point and shoot, and the Bronica cause you mainly want a manual camera. It sometimes makes me think of the difference between something like a Leica M7 and a Contax G2.
The Fuji is great cause you might want to just 'look' and see instances or places that are captivating, and then compose it and - click, whrrr, you're done.
The Bronica is great cause the feel of the camera is even more solid, the controls are mechanical, in tricky light you know the exposure is gonna be good cause you set the aperture and shutter speed the way you like them etc etc. It makes you feel more deliberate or in control the way a manual camera does.
If I could only keep one I would personally keep the Bronica. Shooting medium format film is more about going out and take photographs then pointing and shooting.
But (and it's a big but) there are times that I don't want to necessarily focus so much of my time on the mechanics of photography but do want the image quality and well, just point and shoot.
Perhaps cause you already shoot 6x6 and 6x9 manually, the Fuji might be the camera that adds more to your shooting experiences. If not, and you don't like electronic film advance and setting your aperture while looking at the lcd screen, then I think the Bronica RF's is the one to go for. It's a great piece of equipment.
I own both of these cameras, both are very nicely designed, deliver very very good results and both have their idiosyncrasies.
The biggest deciding factor if you ask me is;
'Do you want a point and shoot, or do you want a fully manual camera?'
Yes the Fuji can do manual, and do it well, but it's certainly not its strong point.
The Bronica you can put in P mode and the metering is terrific, but you still have to focus.
So both of these cameras can do point and shoot and manual to a certain degree, but still in the end, if you place them side by side, I would say you buy the Fuji cause you mainly want a point and shoot, and the Bronica cause you mainly want a manual camera. It sometimes makes me think of the difference between something like a Leica M7 and a Contax G2.
The Fuji is great cause you might want to just 'look' and see instances or places that are captivating, and then compose it and - click, whrrr, you're done.
The Bronica is great cause the feel of the camera is even more solid, the controls are mechanical, in tricky light you know the exposure is gonna be good cause you set the aperture and shutter speed the way you like them etc etc. It makes you feel more deliberate or in control the way a manual camera does.
If I could only keep one I would personally keep the Bronica. Shooting medium format film is more about going out and take photographs then pointing and shooting.
But (and it's a big but) there are times that I don't want to necessarily focus so much of my time on the mechanics of photography but do want the image quality and well, just point and shoot.
Perhaps cause you already shoot 6x6 and 6x9 manually, the Fuji might be the camera that adds more to your shooting experiences. If not, and you don't like electronic film advance and setting your aperture while looking at the lcd screen, then I think the Bronica RF's is the one to go for. It's a great piece of equipment.
Pablito
coco frío
I don't have the Fuji, only the Bronica RF but from what I remember the prime lenses for the Bronica are faster than the zoom on the Fuji. Worth checking into if you are going to be working in limited light.
sooner
Well-known
Argh, I had mostly settled on the Fuji until the last two posts. You guys are right, they are both great cameras. Not sure if the price difference isn't more pronounced, though; on the Bay, the Fujis have been going for closer to $600, whereas the Bronicas for several hundred more. But I do prefer a more manual approach. Problem is, I'm very sensitive on price, too, especially now that one of my lenses on Evay didn't sell tonight. Thanks for the comments, in any case.
Abbazz
6x9 and be there!
tensai said:
Yes, the Bronica didn't hold its value over time. It was quite an expensive camera when it was launched in 2000 -- much more expensive than the Fuji GA645zi -- but it didn't sell very well and the unsold stocks had to be discounted, thus lowering the value of second hand cameras. Prices dropped further more when Tamron announced that the product was discontinued after only 4 years.
Cheers!
Abbazz
kuzano
Veteran
Slight apples to oranges on that KEH price comp
Slight apples to oranges on that KEH price comp
I presume the price for the Bronica is for one lens (in the middle of the range). The Fuji is equipped with almost the full range of all the lenses available for the Bronica, and you'll hunt for the 100, by most accounts.
All the other advantages of the Bronica come into play what percent of the time and images captured.... 5%, 10%....
Also, if you buy the Fuji, you'll be closer to the price you can get back for it. Therefore, if it does not satisfy, you can justify selling it and hunting for the Bronica (later, at a lower price perhaps). Also, if you keep your eyes open, you may find a deal on the Bronica.
Have you ever wondered why the prices are always higher when you're in the market. Buy the fuji so you don't feel pressed by your desire and end up paying more, but be prepared to move when a steal comes along.
Frankly, after you use the Fuji for a while, the Bronica may soon become just an easily forgotten wet dream.
I can appreciate the enthusiasm of the Bronica owners. I love the look of that camera myself. However, whenever I have looked longingly at it, I look at the inflated prices and realize that the advantages of the camera do not justify the price, plus, I FREAKING hate carrying a bag of lenses. When I go out shooting I want to carry one camera... that's all.
I used to hunt defenseless creatures of the forest. I never carried 3 rifles.. one for short shots, one for midrange and one for long shots.
Slight apples to oranges on that KEH price comp
I presume the price for the Bronica is for one lens (in the middle of the range). The Fuji is equipped with almost the full range of all the lenses available for the Bronica, and you'll hunt for the 100, by most accounts.
All the other advantages of the Bronica come into play what percent of the time and images captured.... 5%, 10%....
Also, if you buy the Fuji, you'll be closer to the price you can get back for it. Therefore, if it does not satisfy, you can justify selling it and hunting for the Bronica (later, at a lower price perhaps). Also, if you keep your eyes open, you may find a deal on the Bronica.
Have you ever wondered why the prices are always higher when you're in the market. Buy the fuji so you don't feel pressed by your desire and end up paying more, but be prepared to move when a steal comes along.
Frankly, after you use the Fuji for a while, the Bronica may soon become just an easily forgotten wet dream.
I can appreciate the enthusiasm of the Bronica owners. I love the look of that camera myself. However, whenever I have looked longingly at it, I look at the inflated prices and realize that the advantages of the camera do not justify the price, plus, I FREAKING hate carrying a bag of lenses. When I go out shooting I want to carry one camera... that's all.
I used to hunt defenseless creatures of the forest. I never carried 3 rifles.. one for short shots, one for midrange and one for long shots.
wallace
Well-known
Hi sooner,
like you I use a Minolta Autocord for6x6.
My 4.5x6 rangefinder is the Fuji GS645S with the most
versatile 60mm lens. It's all mechanic, very reliabele and
the pics I get are absolutely tack sharp.
You should try it since they are really cheap. ($300-400).
Thomas
like you I use a Minolta Autocord for6x6.
My 4.5x6 rangefinder is the Fuji GS645S with the most
versatile 60mm lens. It's all mechanic, very reliabele and
the pics I get are absolutely tack sharp.
You should try it since they are really cheap. ($300-400).
Thomas
Well, I usually carry the Bronica about with the 65mm lens, and take the 45 and/or 100mm only when I know the need is there. My Fuji is the GA645Wi with 45mm f4, and this focuses to 2.3 ft, closer than the Bronica 45's 1m, and with parallax correction and field size adjustment too. So these two cameras complement each other and I often pack them both in the bag.
The GA645Zi is a later development on the same platform, and I have not used it. What has put me off is the limited 55-90mm zoom range, and the very slow f/6.9 speed at the 90mm end. Needed to keep size and weight within reason of course, and probably suitable for daylight use. I wanted a faster lens.
The GA645Zi is a later development on the same platform, and I have not used it. What has put me off is the limited 55-90mm zoom range, and the very slow f/6.9 speed at the 90mm end. Needed to keep size and weight within reason of course, and probably suitable for daylight use. I wanted a faster lens.
Krosya
Konicaze
I have never tried Bronica, but it was a very tempting setup. I did own a Fuji ZI for a while. I didn't agree with it. Lens was sharp and clours were good. But that's a bout all I have to say good about it. Lens is way too slow. AF is slow. It feels pretty good in hand, but VF was not the best for me. I also had some issues with film wind/frame overlap, but that could be due to me not loading film right at times when I was trying to do it fast. All in all, I can't say it was a good camera for me. Yet I have read some rave reviews of it - partly why I bought it. It was sold after about 1 year of use. Another issue for me was - I could never get used to vertical 645 format. 6x6 somehow works better for me.
Thats the biggest reason why I never got the Bronica. From what I have read about it - superb camera otherwise. Had they made one in 6x6 format, I'd have it already. So, if vertical 645 is ok with you - I'd try Bronica first. If you want to go Fuji route - I'd go for a fixed lens version, with manual focus, as AF is rather poor.
Thats the biggest reason why I never got the Bronica. From what I have read about it - superb camera otherwise. Had they made one in 6x6 format, I'd have it already. So, if vertical 645 is ok with you - I'd try Bronica first. If you want to go Fuji route - I'd go for a fixed lens version, with manual focus, as AF is rather poor.
whitecat
Lone Range(find)er
I have had them both and while the AF on the Fuji helps in quick situations, the Bronica has a fantastic finder.
Cron
Well-known
I do not know the Fuji but I like my RF645. I bought it after positive feedback here in RFF. I like size, weight, changeable lenses, shutter and the finder. Lenses are very good even wide open. Sometimes lenses could be faster or better minimum distance but normally its ok for me