Bronica RF645 compared to Mamiya 6

[tensai]

Hi there!

Little intro/context;

I'm an illustrator that from time to time likes to do photography related projects from since I was a teenager (14 years old).. Have some darkroom experience in art school, use a D700 for when I need it for work but for my own pleasure I like to shoot with the Bronica RF645.

Lately the RF645 hasn't gotten much love. I think it's the perfect camera. I love the design, the ergonomics, holding it is a pleasure, meter is good, the 65 and 45mm lenses I have are stunning (sharp but with beautiful bokeh etc). The only thing that I don't like as much about it is the 645 format. I really like 6x6 and have wanted to shoot it myself for quite a while.

That is where the Mamiya 6 comes in.
Similar camera, medium format without the weight and the hassle. I held one today at one of the shops here in Tokyo.

I think the body and design are very nice, although personally I'd give the edge to the Bronica here (personal opinion). My Bronica is in slightly better shape (I'd call it excellent) than the Mamiya (very good). I really can't justify having both these cameras, I've been too busy with work for the last two years to really do some regular shooting. So I'd have to trade it in.

So why think about the Mamiya so much?
Again, I love that format and I think I like the viewfinder a bit better too.

I never really understand these threads where people ask other people for advice that comes down to a personal choice but here I am. Allow me if you will;

How would you feel giving up the RF645?
Do you feel it's a downgrade, however small, camera wise?
How do you like Mamiya's 75mm f3.5, in and out of focus?
Anybody went this route and if so what were your reasons and what did you think in the end?
Anybody shoot a 6 and want to share something?

I have some own thoughts on this of course, but would love to hear yours.

Any other thoughts or comments highly appreciated..

(just for ref, here is some miscellaneous stuff that I shot on roll film).
edit - the fuji in my sig is on a permanent loan, consider it gone as far as this question is concerned).

 

[Michiel Fokkema]

I switched from the Bronica to the Mamiya. I just like square better and I like a longer lens then the mere 100mm of the Bronica.
The Bronica is bit easier to use because of the automatic light bafle. Otherwise they are very much the same in handling.

Cheers,

Michiel Fokkema

 

[tensai]

Know what you mean with that square.
I really liked looking through that finder and the bright lines for the 75mm lens being a little bit more away from the edge. Easier composing with my glasses compared to the Bronica.

For me it doesn't involve extra lenses though. It would be a trade only of what I have now versus the Mamiya 6 with the 75. So I'd actually give up something there..

 

[jtm]

That Bronica 45mm lens is fantastic, too. It would be a shame to give that up.

 

[Merkin]

I may be mistaken, but I think some of the key parts for the Mamiya 6 are no longer available, so if it breaks, it is broken.

 

[KenR]

I had all kinds of quality issues with the RF645 purchased new when it first came out - battery compartment wouldn't stay closed (dead camera without batteries) leading to tape on cover. Adjustment dial on back moved off center every time I walked briskly leading to more tape on the dial. Finally the rangefinder patch never would stay in adjustment, leading to multiple trips back to the service center. I loved the handling and the results but didn't think that the camera was built to last. I sold it and bought a Mamiya 6 which comparatively speaking is built like a tank and handles just as well.

 

[Gary E]

I've only used the 75mm and 50mm lenses, but the 50mm is regularly on the body. The 75mm was more of a landscape lens for me, and the 50mm was a street and tight spot shooter. It is very robust, though I've read much about the winder issue. Being there are almost no parts readily available, you must put this into consideration when buying an out of production camera. I'm confident with mine and don't feel it's feeble in any way, but I don't wind it roughly to add to the possible problem.

As to lens quality, both were sharp and flare resistant. I mostly used a hood with both lenses, but with my 50mm I'd sometimes use only a 58-67 step ring with a color filter on it (for B&W). The hood doesn't fit with this setup, and I didn't want to buy more 58mm filters 😛 Even so, no flare.

I've never used the 645RF from Bronica but shunned away from it due to 6x45 and nothing else. I just like 6x6. 😎

 

[CK Dexter Haven]

I hated the M-75mm bokeh. Sold the camera purely on that basis. On the other hand, i loved the Bronica, until it began to drain batteries.

I understand that you prefer the square format. I would rather get a 6x7 (Mamiya 7 or the new Voigtlander/Fuji folder) and crop down to square, rather than compromise with the Mamiya 6's bokeh.

 

[Debusti Paolo]

I do love my bronica rf645 kit (45/65/100 & flash)!!!!!!For squares I went to 903swc & rollei 2,8f!!

 

[historicist]

I can't say anything about the RF 645, but I'd agree with the comment above about the bokeh on the Mamiya 6's 75mm lens. It's a very sharp lens, and very flare resistant, but it doesn't have any of that character you get from a Rollei for example (though Rolleis flare at the slightest provocation).

I have to say though, everything else about it is great, handling, size, built in meter, and it's not like there's a big choice of medium format cameras that are as easily portable and have such good handling.

 

[CK Dexter Haven]

Here's a current thread about the Mamiya 6 + 75mm bokeh, with a sample shot.

http://photo.net/medium-format-photography-forum/00Uwmg

I've posted comments there, as well. I've probably said too much about this camera, but i wish i had the benefit of these types of discussions before i bought it. I would, then, have chosen something else.

I have to say, though, that from the flickr examples you posted, the Mamiya 6 might not be problematic for you. Your 'architectural' photos aren't really going to show/tax the 75mm's bokeh. And, i've not seen anything negative posted about the 50mm. Maybe it would work for you. I don't even think the shot of the woman at the cafe table would be too different with the Mamiya. The subway image, though, is probably rendered much better with the Bronica than it would have been with the Mamiya 75mm.

-derek

 

[Turtle]

do the Mamiya 6 and 7 differ in bokeh? I have to say I would be surprised...

I find the images from the RF645 a touch more organic somehow (to the mamiya 7) but find the Mamiya 7 a bit sharper and the bokeh is very neutral on all lenses. Is the Mamiya 6 different?

BTW I have owned and shot extensively on the RF645 and Mamiya 7 and suspect the 7 & 6 would have very similar bokeh due to almost identical lens designs and FLs.

PS most online comments on bokeh are utter cr@p because nobody bothers to compare different cameras using the same scene under the precise same conditions. And yes, a few cm closer or further and bit a of sidelighting matters a lot. I have seen stunning photography doen with the Mam 6 and selective focus. Cant say I ever noticed the bokeh but thats not to say it is 'great' only that I never saw a problem.

 

[brian steinberger]

Hey there, I own both cameras and absolutely love both. As far as bokeh, the Mamiya's is a bit harsher than the Bronica's. But with the 150 on the M6 shot at a wide aperture offers nice bokeh. Lenses for rangefinders are sharp and harsh by nature. Some people don't their signature. Personally, I love it!

But anyway, I like the Bronica overall better than the Mamiya. First reason is the feel of the camera. It's smaller than the M6 and feels better in my hands. All the controls are in the perfect spot. Secondly, the metering of the Bronica is superior to the M6. I now use a spot meter with my M6 because I don't trust the metering. The Bronica's metering is always right on for me. And the last thing is changing lenses. The Bronica has the automatic light baffle as someone mentioned above. It may not sound like a big deal, but I don't know how many times I've changed lenses on the M6 to get a shot. I focused, composed, waited for the right moment, only to press the shutter and realize I didn't release the light baffle. And I've owned this camera for two years! I'm still not used to it.

Then why do I own the Mamiya 6 you might ask? The 6x6 format rocks!! And a 6x6 rangefinder is cool, it's unique, you never have to turn it on its side for vertical shots. And the lenses for the M6 may be just a bit sharper than the Bronicas from my experience. But that is minor. Also the M6 offers a tele (150) that doesn't cost an arm and a leg, unlike the Bronica.

So all in all you can't go wrong. Both cameras will produce great results. If I could just own one it would be the Bronica though, simply for ease of use.

 

[tensai]

Thanks so much for all the comments and thoughts! I really appreciate all the insight, it has been very helpful.

I don't have as much time as I would like to reply to all the points - a big project has suddenly started and needs immediate feedback and continuous work for the next week at least.

All in all my thoughts are that I don't really want to trade the newer excellent condition camera for an older model with possible repair/parts problems while losing an extra focal length and a certain rendering that I personally really like. I would love to shoot square but have no problems with the 645 shape of course. Perhaps someday I will come across another one and re-think again.

With all the input I definitely feel my decision then will be informed and pretty well considered if/when that time comes. For now I will stick with my beloved RF645 though!

Again, thanks for all the information!

Cheers..

 

[merciless49]

Hello all, very interesting comments. As I've not used a Bronica RF645, I cannot comment on that. However, I do have the Mamiya 6 which I bought used. The exterior looks well used, so I assumed that the person who owned it previously had used it lots. However, not a problem for me so far as I've gone through 10's of rolls myself. It's definitely sharp, and very robust as I took it camping, hiking, and through lots of unintentional abuse.

 

[mrisney]

I used the Mamiya 645 Pro TL, for about a year.
I too thought the 6x6 was more of a trademark of fine art imagery,
and so I sold my 645 with 3 lens,an AE Prism for the 6.
I wouldn't go back to 6x4.5 even for a Contax.
This is an often repeated meme about the camera - the Mamiya lenses are sharp!
the camera, well, you have held one in your hand, just feels right, solid, perfect.
It's quiet, and I have been able to hand hold without blurring around edges at 1/15.

With the 3 lenses, the 150 being the least used. I would say it's perfect.
My quest for a medium format handheld is over. I will not buy another one in my lifetime.
Only a replacement 6 if I ever loose or break my current one.

 

[Pablito]

I have both and use both. I like the Mamiya better because I prefer the square and I love the way it fold up, it can even fit in a coat pocket. I find the viewfinder superior on the Mamiya but the meter is pretty bad, it tends to be highly biased towards highlights which may be ok with transparency film but tends to underexpose negative films. The Bronica feels more plasticky, the Mamiya feels more like a Leica. I have no bokeh complaints about the lenses. I stripped one of the gears in the film transport system on one of my Mamiya 6 bodies back when it could easily be repaired but I understand this is the part that is now very hard to find. If you get the Mamiya, I recommend advancing film slowly and deliberately, not fast.

 

[Turtle]

despite having the 7II I have still retained a RF645 + 65 & 45 as it is a much better walk about camera IMO. When I want big negs and spectacular resutls I use the mamiya, but it is slower to use and needs more user involvement.

 

[nksyoon]

No real complaints about bokeh on the Mamiya 75 so far, but I'm not super-fussy with bokeh.