Fujifilm X200 rumor...

NicoM said:
I think that you're forgetting that what Sony has done is a first and will only lead to greater things in the future, not just from sony, but from all other manufacturers as well. To call the Sony system a "half-a$$ed full frame wannabee" is outrageous. Sony is the only company right now that is actually taking any chances and making innovative products.

I still believe that the best size/performance ratio is with full frame sensors and will be the standard in the not so distant future. Sure, not everyone needs it right now, but it's good that it's there for those that do.
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U do not consider the Fuji joint venture w/ Panasonic pushing the envelope w/ the organic sensor or Fuji's ovf/evf design?

Gary
 
GaryLH said:
U do not consider the Fuji joint venture w/ Panasonic pushing the envelope w/ the organic sensor or Fuji's ovf/evf design?

Gary
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We haven't seen the organic sensor in action yet. Who knows when the timeframe of that release will be. The OVF/EVF is an innovation and I'm not taking anything away from that. I'm just pointing out that it's not fair to bash Sony when there's nothing wrong with what they're doing.
 
archeophoto said:
uhh, I want to challenge you on that. Where do you see the innovation in the Sony cameras? Full frame in a small camera body? Leica done it years ago with the M9. The difference is that Leica actually has good lenses that match the body size of the camera.
The last REAL innovation in the camera world was Fuji's hybrid viewfinder and I have a feeling it will stay that way for quite a while.
Just because a company throws out products left, right and center without a clear vision does not mean they are innovators.

(BTW: Fuji has to be careful with that as well with their recent lineup. How many similar cameras do we need?)

Believe me if Sony would have innovations going, you would see Pros in the field with them. But you don't.
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Sony comes in with a very affordable full frame mirrorless camera with modern features. The M9 was great, but at $7k a pop at launch and only having a rangefinder? Not to mention that you had to spend another couple of grand for a lens to go with it. Innovation, I guess it was, but the difference is that it wasn't available to the masses and that it didn't spark anything new from anyone else.

In terms of lenses, I think Sony is doing alright. They launched a kit zoom to satisfy most, especially the average consumer, and released the 35mm which is a staple for many "street shooters" which I think has become one of the larger audience for small mirrorless cameras. They'll have the 55 and 70-200 ready early next year. I think that's on par or greater than Fuji at launch. Fuji knew that they were losing sales because they didn't have any zooms at launch for the average consumer. Sony is also market the A7 for use with legacy glass, which I'm sure a lot of people will end up doing.

I'm not taking away anything from what Fuji or Leica or anyone else has done. The point of my post was to say that bashing of Sony was uncalled for, especially since they're doing great things right now.
 
Wiyum said:
Yeah, I'm no hater of the A7/A7R, except in this regard: steal from Fuji and launch with a 28, 50, and 85/90 prime. The launch lens selection is half-baked, the roadmap is vague or nonexistent, and Sony already has a bad history of launching new systems and not giving them the necessary lenses (APS-C NEX users should sell their cameras if there's a lens they've been waiting on). The camera isn't half-baked, but the lens lineup is, and Sony should know better by now.
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I guess there is some truth to that, but I think Sony has done a decent with lens selection. Sure, theres no wide angle prime, but it was actually Fuji who lost sales at launch for not having a zoom that would cater to a majority of the people. It took them a while before realizing that they had to get that 18-55, 55-200 combo out. By the time we hit Jan-Feb, there will be a 35, 55, 24-70,70-200. Supposedly, there will be an additional 5 more lenses to follow this year. Sure, it's not the best selection, but it's pretty damn good and Sony is working hard to pump out more.

Not to mention the quality. Like with the RX1, the new Zeiss glass rivals the best in its class, including Leica.
 
You can say that about any camera manufacturer. There is nothing wrong with Pentax products for example.
But you said "Sony is the only company right now that is actually taking any chances and making innovative products."
That's a strong statement.
So, where are the innovations and how are they "taking chances"?
Fuji took a chance with the X100. Sony tried to copy the concept with the RX1. A $2800 camera, slow as cold molasses and without a viewfinder. That's not an innovation!

Fuji took another chance with the X-Pro 1 after Leica enthusiasts proclaimed a system camera with a hybrid viewfinder can't be done for this price point. They introduced a proper road map for lenses and they stuck to it. Plus they support their products with proper firmware updates even after the product has been discontinued. Now that's taking a chance!

There is not one example I can think of where Sony introduced a true innovation or took a chance on anything other than fishing for market niches by copying the ideas of others.



NicoM said:
We haven't seen the organic sensor in action yet. Who knows when the timeframe of that release will be. The OVF/EVF is an innovation and I'm not taking anything away from that. I'm just pointing out that it's not fair to bash Sony when there's nothing wrong with what they're doing.
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why are we discussing sony in a fuji rumour thread?
rff is becoming much too confrontational…gentlemen, put it back in your pants!
 
archeophoto said:
You can say that about any camera manufacturer. There is nothing wrong with Pentax products for example.
But you said "Sony is the only company right now that is actually taking any chances and making innovative products."
That's a strong statement.
So, where are the innovations and how are they "taking chances"?
Fuji took a chance with the X100. Sony tried to copy the concept with the RX1. A $2800 camera, slow as cold molasses and without a viewfinder. That's not an innovation!

Fuji took another chance with the X-Pro 1 after Leica enthusiasts proclaimed a system camera with a hybrid viewfinder can't be done for this price point. They introduced a proper road map for lenses and they stuck to it. Plus they support their products with proper firmware updates even after the product has been discontinued. Now that's taking a chance!

There is not one example I can think of where Sony introduced a true innovation or took a chance on anything other than fishing for market niches by copying the ideas of others.
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They are the first full frame mirrorless camera with modern features. First full frame compact camera. Translucent mirror tech. Full frame cameras with built-in image stabilization (something that other manufacturers said couldn't be done). They produce a majority of the new sensors, and design a large portion of them. And they're doing it while still offering affordable prices compared to any direct competition.

That's just naming a few.

Me saying that other companies aren't innovating was too much, I will admit, but I still stand by the fact that Sony is up there in the most innovative companies these days when it comes to cameras.

I hate that most of my comments in this thread have become about Sony rather than the rumored Fuji X200, and I apologize for that. I made one comment about the A7 and got a lot of replies from it so I naturally replied to everyone.

So back to the X200?
 
Let's see Fuji go back to the old formula of wide, normal and add a short-tele as they did with the 670 and 690 film cameras.
A full frame point and shoot with a true 28mm lens would be killer. Yes, you can get an ugly attachment for the X100 but it causes distortion and flare. There is no substitute for designing the lens to the film/sensor plane.
If they had a 28mm and 90mm equivalent, I'd all but dump my D3 that I dearly love as I'd only use it for my 300mm. (Who am I kidding though, I may never be able to get past AIS Nikkors for work, they are so fantastic.)
An X200w, X200 and X200t would be amazing. Stick a superspeed aperture in that 50mm lens while you're at it, Fuji. F/1.2 is possible these days, especially in a fixed lens camera. F/1.4 was the norm back before the advent of the f/2.8 zoom craze.

Phil Forrest
 
Phil_F_NM said:
Let's see Fuji go back to the old formula of wide, normal and add a short-tele as they did with the 670 and 690 film cameras.
A full frame point and shoot with a true 28mm lens would be killer. Yes, you can get an ugly attachment for the X100 but it causes distortion and flare. There is no substitute for designing the lens to the film/sensor plane.
If they had a 28mm and 90mm equivalent, I'd all but dump my D3 that I dearly love as I'd only use it for my 300mm. (Who am I kidding though, I may never be able to get past AIS Nikkors for work, they are so fantastic.)
An X200w, X200 and X200t would be amazing. Stick a superspeed aperture in that 50mm lens while you're at it, Fuji. F/1.2 is possible these days, especially in a fixed lens camera. F/1.4 was the norm back before the advent of the f/2.8 zoom craze.

Phil Forrest
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That's interesting. It would be awesome if they offered different variants, but I'm sure that would throw most people off. When people are more likely to buy something if they're presented with one option rather than multiple.

I'm more of a wide shooter myself and would love to see a nice (and still compact) way to shoot wider.
 
NicoM said:
That's interesting. It would be awesome if they offered different variants, but I'm sure that would throw most people off. When people are more likely to buy something if they're presented with one option rather than multiple.

I'm more of a wide shooter myself and would love to see a nice (and still compact) way to shoot wider.
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As this is a Fuji rumour thread, I'll preface this by saying that I own the X100 and X10. :D The best wide angle compacts these days are the Ricoh GR and Nikon Coolpix A. The GR has the added benefit of being able to attach a 21mm adapter.

I've done some tests and discovered that, very disturbingly, the GR+21 comes quite close to the Leica M9 + Zeiss 21/2.8 in image quality! Where it loses in depth of field control and resolution, it makes up in usable high ISO. And the GR+21 even covers a wider angle than the Zeiss 21mm, too.
 
I own both the x100 and the gr..

I use the gr more because it is pocketable. I also have the 21 adapter. But I like the control layout of the x100 much better and my preferred focal length is actually 40, so I end up cropping a lot on the gr when I am taking the types of pictures that I normally would.

But the gr gets carried a lot more just because it just fits in my pocket, so when I am out and about not really intending to photograph, the gr is w/ me instead.

Gary
 
I'd want a X-Pro1s, weather sealed with the same sensor as the X100S.
That would be a better move for them...

Gil.
 
GaryLH said:
I own both the x100 and the gr..

I use the gr more because it is pocketable. I also have the 21 adapter. But I like the control layout of the x100 much better and my preferred focal length is actually 40, so I end up cropping a lot on the gr when I am taking the types of pictures that I normally would.

But the gr gets carried a lot more just because it just fits in my pocket, so when I am out and about not really intending to photograph, the gr is w/ me instead.

Gary
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Like you I like the GR more because it's pocketable, but also it has a more versatile focal length than the X100/s, 21mm with adapter, 35 and 50 cropped.
I like the menu more of the X100 than the Q menu on the X100s too.
What I would like from Fuji though is a med-tele camera like the DP3M, I'm a little hesitant going the Sigma route.
If they released a 90mm digital camera, then the GR and that camera would be all I need on the digital world.

Right now I'm so tempted to trade in the M9 for the X-Pro1 and 56mm but in reality I should just be content with the M9 and my 90mm
 
I own the X100s, the X-Pro1 and the Ricoh GR. I generally go out with the GR and X-Pro1 with 35mm. The X100s is great, but it's the odd man out these days.
 
Wiyum said:
I'm with you. A 1.4 x100s is almost certainly smaller than the nearly-equivalent 2.0 FF x100s. A 1.4 FF x100s would likely be awfully large. None of the three is nearly as appealing as what we have now.

I'm of the opinion that Pentax was on to the right idea, and that Fuji should consider following suit; namely that a company dedicating itself to building a quality APS-C system complete with a thorough (if not exhaustive) format-appropriate set of lenses needs to jump past FF to differentiate its own product line. Tough to pull off, and there are plenty of reasons the 645d didn't take off. But I think a revival of sorts of the GW670 or GW690 could be the right idea. Bigger than full frame, smaller than 6x7, high megapixel bodies. A "Texas x100" if you will. Two models: a 28 or 35ish focal length and an 85 or 90ish focal length. Good for studio work or landscape. Building on the relative success of the x100s with the strobe crowd because of the leaf shutter. And both cameras could probably be had for less than a 40mp digital back. A way to jump up to medium format for less than other offerings.

Pie in the sky, sure. But I think it could work if Fuji could find a partner to make the sensors. Then again, I'd also like to see a digital X-Pan.
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100 likes :D:D:D
 
archeophoto said:
  • Fuji took a chance with the X100. Sony tried to copy the concept with the RX1. A $2800 camera, slow as cold molasses and without a viewfinder. That's not an innovation!
  • Fuji took another chance with the X-Pro 1 after Leica enthusiasts proclaimed a system camera with a hybrid viewfinder can't be done for this price point.
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In this vein, Fuji will take a new bold chances with a FF fixed lens X200, and a X-mount FF, OVF/EVF combo for sure!
Their innovations have paid off.

My wife just bought an X100 Black and I am more than amazed about this gem. Silent as a whisper (redefining 'discreet'), low noise and excellent focus also in low light. I already love the handling.

I compared with my M8 by using a voigtlander 25 mm lens: at F5.6 there is barely a difference, save that the X100 lacks moiré.

So for my own road map: I am looking at the X200 with excitement... but I'll look apprehensively at a X-pro2 FF that I can bolt my Leica glass on. . . :D
Anxious!

yes their plans please me!
 
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