Future investment: X100 or E-P3

[Bug]

Hello to all of you!

I am currently thinking about getting a digital solution to reduce the hassle of developping and scanning. I would then dedicate my R2M to black & white shooting...

I see too possibilities, reconning that I am an amateur, that my budget will almost never allow me the purchase of a Leica body:
- ONE = Fuji X100
I have seen many good reviews and feedback. I like the fixed lens, the possibility to use and carry one single camera, which includes VF.
- TWO = Olympus PEN E-P3
This is for the moment my preferred solution, as it allows me to use my Nokton Classic lens with adapter ring, and still allows me the possibility to use some other lenses.

From the price, they are almost equivalent:
Fuji = roughly 1200EUR
Olympus + EVF2 + adapter ring = 1300EUR

What do you guys think? Is my tendency towards E-P3 reasonable?

Finally, knowing that I own the Nokton 35mm F1.4, which I think would make it a roughly 70mm on the PEN, which lens kit would be good when purchasing the PEN (I want to use the 100EUR Oly asks for a lens kit)?
I am looking to the 14-42 kit.

I know that choosing a camera is something personnal. But I wanted to get some advice on this choice, as I am not the kind to run around with 2 bodies and 3-4 lenses in my bag.

Thanks!

 

[uhligfd]

Waiting a bit for the NEX 7 is out of the question?

 

[Bug]

I thought about it, but I think the NEX-7 will be higher priced.
And I have had very bad experiences with many Sony products. In the field of photo/video, I found that Sony batteries were the worst ever...

In short, I prefer not to buy Sony. I know, this is stupid right?

 

[magicianhisoka]

I'd go for the Ep3 if you're planning on sinking a little more into quality glass and utilizing your M mount lenses on it.

the X100 is a special breed of camera. if you don't mind living within its limitations, i think it'd make a good choice.

still, i'd lean towards the Ep3

 

[LeicaFan]

Between the two, I would choose the E-P3. Having the ability to use hundreds of different lenses is awesome.

What is your preferred focal length? I would go with a Panny 14mm or 20mm.

 

[OlliL]

Hello Olivier,

tough decision and I'm glad that the E-P3 wasn't announced, when I bought my X100 😀

I like the idea of pairing the Pen with the Nokt, but I'm not confident that it will be easy to focus, at least wide open.

Remember, you are looking at a 70mm f2.8, when compared to full-frame and you don't have any focus aid.

Besides that, In the long run, 'm pretty sure that Oly will come out with more primes, like the 14mm f2 (Maybe second gen 17mm?!) and a short tele for shure, too.

It's a hard decision, but if your considering a E-P3 as a one lens kit, with your Nokton, to the X100, then it's apples to oranges, just beacause of the focal lengths of 35mm and 70mm.

 

[mugent]

Is there a substantial difference between the EP3 and the much cheaper EP2?

Cheers

MT

 

[magicianhisoka]

Hello Olivier,

tough decision and I'm glad that the E-P3 wasn't announced, when I bought my X100 😀

I like the idea of pairing the Pen with the Nokt, but I'm not confident that it will be easy to focus, at least wide open.

Remember, you are looking at a 70mm f2.8, when compared to full-frame and you don't have any focus aid.

Besides that, In the long run, 'm pretty sure that Oly will come out with more primes, like the 14mm f2 (Maybe second gen 17mm?!) and a short tele for shure, too.

It's a hard decision, but if your considering a E-P3 as a one lens kit, with your Nokton, to the X100, then it's apples to oranges, just beacause of the focal lengths of 35mm and 70mm.

the m4/3s will zoom in by ten times to help you focus 🙂 definitely not a solution for moving targets but decent enough for still life or posed subjects

 

[Bug]

Thanks for the answers.

For focusing, I would use my Nokton for portrait (I think 70mm is the good length for this) or still images. In any case, I am very bad at focusing moving objects, therefore, I would rely on AF with a m4/3 kit for this scenario.
The main difference I see between E-P2 and E-P3 is the AF. And the price of course. I have read a lot of complaints about PEN AF until the first previews of the P3 - and, as said above, I will use AF on my camera.

And...
I just thought about Epson R-D1 which is almost the same price... :bang:

Ah... I always end up thinking too much !

 

[OlliL]

the m4/3s will zoom in by ten times to help you focus 🙂 definitely not a solution for moving targets but decent enough for still life or posed subjects

For sure, missed that 😱

 

[thegman]

If you can manage 1200 Euros for an EP-3 or X100, you can probably stretch and hang on for an M8. I'm not saying you should, it's just that you mentioned not being able to afford a Leica, so I assume you'd get one if you could.

If you really want a Leica, a user M8 will probably come within your grasp.

Out of the other two though, for me it's the X100. It has proper controls for shutter speed and aperture, a choice of optical or electronic finder, where as the EP-3 has neither, except for an add-on which ruins the form factor.

High ISO is better, if you need that too.

However, I'd also consider an EP-1 or an EP-2, the price has fallen through the floor, and they still look like nice cameras.

 

[jsrockit]

X100 hands down. Built in OVF/EVF, better image quality, dedicated knobs / ring, better high ISO, etc. Buy a used Olympus E-P1 cheap for use with your nokton.

 

[Mattikk]

If you can afford the new 12mm lens for EP-3 it might be worth it. Otherwise I'd go for a X100, in fact I just did. It's going through it's first battery charge as I type.

 

[Matus]

Tough choice right now. Depends on what you need. The fuji has fixed lens what may be limiting on one side but may make your life much easier - no need to carry another lenses (and keep thinking that you just need the one that you left home) and you do not spend your time changing the lenses. Fuji video is poor as far as I could see as the AF just keeps hunting. Fuji has probably better DR and high ISO, though I am guessing here.

On the other hand it seems that finally some decent lenses are being made for m4/3 cameras so if you want a few fixed focals - you have a good chance that they get introduced (if those on the market do not satisfy your needs). Of course it will be more expensive in the longer run.

BTW, the X100 is 1000 Euro, not 1200.

After having the X100 in hand for a few minutes my only gripe was the leatherette - Fuji, why so slippery? Black X1 is much better in this regard.

 

[willie_901]

If signal-to-noise ratio and dynamic range are not important to your work, the EP-3 is a reasonable solution. The optional EVF is about $180 more. Otherwise to compose you have to hold the camera out in front of you as if you were holding an infant with a messy diaper.

 

[Mackinaw]

Personally, I'll always choose a interchangeable lens camera over a fixed lens camera.

Jim B.

 

[Bug]

thegman, I checked and it seems difficult to find an M8 body under 2000EUR. I will push a little further.

I see that most comments now tend to X100. I do not care about video, as my Lumix point and shoot can handle this perfectly.

Matus, you are right, the M-Zuiko 12mm seems nice. You are right as well with regard to the X100 price. I was confused by a pack I have seen in Stuttgart with leather case and some other stuff.

I know my wife will kill me, but I think I will follow my gut-feeling and some of you who recommended the use of interchangeable lenses. And then wait a little to get one or 2 premium lenses on the used market.
I appreciate as well the possibiliy to use autofocus lenses for tele photos if I want. Although the optics seem generally less good than classic lenses.
I will regret the optical viewfinder which is on the X100, but I can still add this big bump called EVF2, as I need to have my eye on the camera to shoot.

For now, let's wait for this tax refund. I sure have the time to think about it...
Thanks to all of you!

 

[Matus]

Bug, let me share my story 🙂

I just changed a job that will make me travel (though with little time for photography) so I starter to think of some sort of digital camera that would allow me to get the results faster - but is compact enough to be taken along. I went through Ricoh GXR, Leica X1, Fuji X100, Sigma DP2s, Olympus XZ-1, Panasonic LX-5, Canon S95 and Ricoh GRDIII. Most of these I had in hand. I found the X100 a bit too large and slippery, X1 a bit too expensive 😉 , GXR does not have 35mm lens, DP2s is weak on high ISO and is slow, and so on.

In particular the APS-C cameras (my preference) somehow did not offer all what I would like so I decided to get something smaller, cheaper and wait what next 6 - 12 months will bring. My wife even promised me the X2 (should it materialize one day) for birthday 😛

Tomorrow I will to 99% pick up a new GRDIII as I realized that it's simplicity will not get into the way, it is very small, shoots multiple format (I like squares) and has very good lens and interface. It has decent price and goes well with dark suit (well, black X1 would too when I come to think of it).

I am trying to say - you are not getting your last camera. Get something that fulfills best your requirements now. Should something earthshaking get released in a year you can still sell what you have, save a bit more and go ahead. X100 is a bit one of a kind camera (like X1). On the other hand m4/3 is a platform you can built up on - there are definitely more lenses coming in the future for this system.

If you do not have the need to get the camera right now - then just don't - they will one be getting better and possibly also cheaper. Otherwise just get the one you like best now.

 

[cosmonaut]

I would go for an E-P1 or E-P2. Save big money. If you compare DXO marks there is little difference in overall image quality. I really think Olympus may have squeezed as much image quality out of the small sensor as can be had. The E-P3 isn't much of an improvement in IQ. The x2 two crop factor may drive you nuts. It is also a PITA to manually focus a Pen in the daytime with a LCD so the VF-2 or 3 is a must own. The Nex with the focus peaking feature blows all the rest for using a MF lens with the LCD. I have an E-P1 and it shoots manualy better than the other Pen offerings. DXO marks of a Nex is close to a M9 where the Pens are one of the lowest of the Evil cameras. You won't be able to use high iSOs with the Pens. The image quality of the Nex is as good as if not better than my E5, certainly better at anything above 800iso.

 

[menos]

Olivier, neither option is a "investment" (both cameras will be bought new and will loose in monetary value quicker than say blueberrypancake).

I would stay far away form the µ4/3 solution, as possible (got through that experience myself with a GH-2) and would go for a new X100 only, if this particular camera is interesting for you, while you can afford it.

I would go either for:

- Leica M6 + BW film + self dev.
- Leica M8 (second hand bodies for 1600 − 1800 EUR) are commonly available

Personally, I would not buy a X100.