Neare
Well-known
The person who has the money to buy a M9 could probably buy both.
GAS advice needed : M9 or 501CM ?
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xxloverxx
Shoot.
As you've already got film-M's, I'd go for Hassy.
Steve Ash
Established
I would save for the M9 but keep the M6 mainly because I like to travel light. MF cameras have an advantage resolution wise and with respect to shallower dof. You can get close to this with your exisiting M kit by using low iso b&w film like Adox cms 20 (www.fotoimpex.de) at daylights.
Regards
Steve
Regards
Steve
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Well, I've used MF lots, and must still have at least half a dozen 'system' MF cameras from 66x44mm to 6x9cm, plus a 6x12cm back for 4x5, and I'd still go for the M9 for colour If I shot only B+W MF would win easily, but in colour, nah, 18 megapixels is OK.
After all, you can advance the same arguments for 4x5 inch, 5x7 inch, 8x10 inch... Again, I have the lot, and have shot 4x5 and 8x10 colour as well as B+W. A camera is always a compromise. For me, for the things I shoot, for the way I like to work, the M9 is the best compromise I've ever used in colour. That's not the same as saying it's best for everyone or everything, but it is advice based on experience.
Unlike Double Negative, I've an M9 and no Hasselblad, because I gave up Hasselblads in the 1980s. If you don't mind a slow camera, and want a LOT more versatility (and a bigger neg) consider a 'baby' Linhof, though a reflex is more use for portraits.
Cheers,
R.
maddoc
... likes film again.
Important is what are you going to do with your photos. I have a Hassy 500 C/M with 80/2.8 T* CF and scan with an Epson V700. While the quality of the scans is sufficient for me, the M9 easily gets the same or better resolution / fine details with less effort and time. I am for sure not the fan of any digital camera but the M9 made me think twice ...
To get the full potential out of a MF camera, a sufficient scanner is absolute necessary but then the difference in price to the M9 is not that large anymore ... Just my two cents of course ...
To get the full potential out of a MF camera, a sufficient scanner is absolute necessary but then the difference in price to the M9 is not that large anymore ... Just my two cents of course ...
ferider
Veteran
The Hassi is a chick magnet 🙂
Try a 50/80/150 kit with one of the 500 bodies. It will give you a very different perspective and is loads of fun.
Nothing against the M9. But I suggest to only buy it if you can in addition to the Hassi, without saving, your car paid off, etc etc.
Try a 50/80/150 kit with one of the 500 bodies. It will give you a very different perspective and is loads of fun.
Nothing against the M9. But I suggest to only buy it if you can in addition to the Hassi, without saving, your car paid off, etc etc.
MatthewThompson
Well-known
Great points. When it comes to the path an image takes, if it's going to end up on a screen it should be shot on a sensor and not film. I'd lose a lot of the enthusiasm I have for MF if I wasn't ending the image's journey in a darkroom. I know that it's not for everyone, but traditional printing is a benefit of MF, not a detractor.
Warren T.
Well-known
Good advice and interesting opinions so far.
Adding my .02: Try the Hasselblad. I would also equip it with an eye level finder to get around the reversed image problem. You not only get a much larger negative, you're also getting the superb Zeiss optics (I'm surprised nobody mentioned this yet 🙂 ).
The Hassy takes some getting used to, that's for sure. But if you use it enough, it's possible to operate relatively quickly if necessary. For folks used to shooting with RF, it will be a shock since the Hassy does not even have an instant return mirror. The mirror stays up after the shot is taken, until you wind the shutter! When I used to take wedding candids with a 500CM, my operating procedures was click/crank...click/crank, etc. I have a rapid wind crank on mine, and a Jones camera bracket with a cable release connected to the left hand grip. We also experimented with a 500 EL/M, the motor drive version, but it was heavier, and was not all that much speedier than hand cranking.
We often say that by using a non-metered, fully manual film camera like a classic Leica, it forces one to slow down and think. Well, a Hassy forces you to slow down more! 🙂 You might find that it opens up new areas/avenues for your creativity.
If you don't like it, you can always resell it, but I suspect that you'll be very pleased with the results.
--Warren
Adding my .02: Try the Hasselblad. I would also equip it with an eye level finder to get around the reversed image problem. You not only get a much larger negative, you're also getting the superb Zeiss optics (I'm surprised nobody mentioned this yet 🙂 ).
The Hassy takes some getting used to, that's for sure. But if you use it enough, it's possible to operate relatively quickly if necessary. For folks used to shooting with RF, it will be a shock since the Hassy does not even have an instant return mirror. The mirror stays up after the shot is taken, until you wind the shutter! When I used to take wedding candids with a 500CM, my operating procedures was click/crank...click/crank, etc. I have a rapid wind crank on mine, and a Jones camera bracket with a cable release connected to the left hand grip. We also experimented with a 500 EL/M, the motor drive version, but it was heavier, and was not all that much speedier than hand cranking.
We often say that by using a non-metered, fully manual film camera like a classic Leica, it forces one to slow down and think. Well, a Hassy forces you to slow down more! 🙂 You might find that it opens up new areas/avenues for your creativity.
If you don't like it, you can always resell it, but I suspect that you'll be very pleased with the results.
--Warren
aizan
Veteran
how is this an either/or situation? buy a hassy now, keep saving for an m9, and when the time comes, decide whether to sell the hassy or hold onto it.
ferider
Veteran
I find that really only true with last generation lenses, Gabor (including some non-Leica lenses). For example, any pre-asph Leica lens wide open will give you less in-print, across the field resolution than a decent classic 50 Distagon or 80 Planar on 6x6. Depending on what the OP uses, new lenses might heavily add to the budget, in particular if he wants Leica.
More important than details, when deciding for 35 vs 6x6 is speed, IMO. A Hassi is quite useless for available light people photography, for instance.
Still, the M9 is for users who can regularly drink Champagne for breakfast 😀 Not a camera to buy on credit, IMO.
Roland.
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maddoc
... likes film again.
.. that's why I keep away from the M9 ! 😀
About old Leica glass and the M9 ... I have a portrait of my son taken with the 9cm Elmar 1:4 / M9 and looking at that photo in 100% ... 🙂
icebear
Veteran
LOL , easily the post with the highest number of responses within a couple of hours, at least in my book. It's about gear of course 😀.
But to each and everyone thanks a lot. I don't need a chick magnet unless it's attracting the ones ending up with some herbs, shallots and half a bottle of red wine in a cast iron pot...
If you have a look at my gallery, I shoot (at least post here) mostly stuff I'd call street photography. I.e. classic M domaine. I was asked by a friend to do a bit of landscape work for him, so I got out there with the Gitzo and all the work and time with the M was not really paying off in the negs - at least my gutt feeling. So the Hassey would be used for landscape and cityscape.
I have a V500 flatbed scanner and a Coolscan V but that only takes 35mm.I'd still have to hope for last year's tax return to judge if I can be stupid enough the shell out the money for a M9.
The Hassey would still be something to carry around. Of course the sky is the Limit when it comes to IQ, so yes, I also have focussed with a loupe on the ground glass behind a Linhof but that was studio stuff a friend did for a living. Nothing that you want to handle for fun.
I'm not sure a MF negative holder for the V500 would do any good to 6x6 negs from a Hassey compared to the Coolscan V with the Leica M negs? And going all the way for the 9000 ? Definately no Flextight, not going there😎.
More input welcome ... some Hassey shots anyone?
But to each and everyone thanks a lot. I don't need a chick magnet unless it's attracting the ones ending up with some herbs, shallots and half a bottle of red wine in a cast iron pot...
If you have a look at my gallery, I shoot (at least post here) mostly stuff I'd call street photography. I.e. classic M domaine. I was asked by a friend to do a bit of landscape work for him, so I got out there with the Gitzo and all the work and time with the M was not really paying off in the negs - at least my gutt feeling. So the Hassey would be used for landscape and cityscape.
I have a V500 flatbed scanner and a Coolscan V but that only takes 35mm.I'd still have to hope for last year's tax return to judge if I can be stupid enough the shell out the money for a M9.
The Hassey would still be something to carry around. Of course the sky is the Limit when it comes to IQ, so yes, I also have focussed with a loupe on the ground glass behind a Linhof but that was studio stuff a friend did for a living. Nothing that you want to handle for fun.
I'm not sure a MF negative holder for the V500 would do any good to 6x6 negs from a Hassey compared to the Coolscan V with the Leica M negs? And going all the way for the 9000 ? Definately no Flextight, not going there😎.
More input welcome ... some Hassey shots anyone?
Jamie123
Veteran
Don't get too caught up in the ''you need the best scanner to make it worthwhile'' arguments. Sure, you won't get the maximum resolution from a flatbed but you'll get all the other qualities of medium format like the smooth gradations and shallow dof etc. I have both an Epson 4990 flatbed and a Nikon CS9000 and at screen size the difference is neglectable. Yes, the Nikon scans are a bit sharper but it doesn't make or break a shot. Here are a couple Hasselblad ''street'' shots, all scanned with the Epson:
and a few ''available light'' shots:
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vincentbenoit
télémétrique argentique
Stick to your film M and spend what you'd pay for an M9 on film.
Don't worry about image quality; light, composition and subject matter are much more important.
Vincent
Don't worry about image quality; light, composition and subject matter are much more important.
Vincent
PMCC
Late adopter.
Some inputs below.
Fun factor: http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2009/12/fun-with-medium-format.html
Finance factor: unless it's for business, only buy an M9 out of spare change already in hand. Buying one on credit might be like taking out a mortgage on a Las Vegas house in 2007.
Fun factor: http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2009/12/fun-with-medium-format.html
Finance factor: unless it's for business, only buy an M9 out of spare change already in hand. Buying one on credit might be like taking out a mortgage on a Las Vegas house in 2007.
Chris101
summicronia
"M9 or 501CM?"
Those two cameras are so similar, I don't know how you could EVER decide!
Those two cameras are so similar, I don't know how you could EVER decide!
Armoured
Well-known
Definitely don't buy an M9 if you have to stretch.
Since it sounds like you haven't used medium format much, I completely support the Hassy idea (or really some other MF cameras - Mamiya TLR would also be sweet and much cheaper).
It'll be different from the M-system handling and the results will look different ('better' will be subjective and depend on what you're using it for). Fun factor will definitely be there.
Of course, there are lots of other options too, like even going DSLR or M8 (if you don't have some existing digital) to complement your film M-system.
But if you shop judiciously, you shouldn't lose much or anything on a hassy or other MF system if you hate it and sell later.
Digital cameras will go down in price (or improve features for same price) for some time yet. This isn't an argument to delay purchasing digital equipment forever (life's too short and use now has value) - but it is worth considering timing and effectiveness before making big purchases. Assuming money is a finite resource for you...
Nice MF gear has considerable fun factor value.
Since it sounds like you haven't used medium format much, I completely support the Hassy idea (or really some other MF cameras - Mamiya TLR would also be sweet and much cheaper).
It'll be different from the M-system handling and the results will look different ('better' will be subjective and depend on what you're using it for). Fun factor will definitely be there.
Of course, there are lots of other options too, like even going DSLR or M8 (if you don't have some existing digital) to complement your film M-system.
But if you shop judiciously, you shouldn't lose much or anything on a hassy or other MF system if you hate it and sell later.
Digital cameras will go down in price (or improve features for same price) for some time yet. This isn't an argument to delay purchasing digital equipment forever (life's too short and use now has value) - but it is worth considering timing and effectiveness before making big purchases. Assuming money is a finite resource for you...
Nice MF gear has considerable fun factor value.
raydm6
Yay! Cameras! 🙈🙉🙊┌( ಠ_ಠ)┘ [◉"]
Before trading it in for my M6 system, I had a 501CM w/50/80/150 CF lenses. Loved the outfit.
I'd go for a 501CM w/80 CF & shade, WLF, A12 back (maybe two). Keep it simple and shoot it for awhile and see if you like it. I metered with a Gossen Luna Pro SBC and simply transferred the EV readings to the EV scale on the lenses. I actually loved composing on the screen rather than using a prism finder (didn't care for it that much).
Anyway, here are some shots (sorry - no scans):
Neare
Well-known
Or buy the Hassy, and then get a m4/3 for your leica glass. 😉
Both will still cost you less than half a M9 (and so what if the digi's not full frame, all the more reason to keep up with the film)
Both will still cost you less than half a M9 (and so what if the digi's not full frame, all the more reason to keep up with the film)
jsrockit
Moderator
I'd go for the M9 while you can. The Hassleblad can be bought later.
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