Germany and the Netherlands: What to take?

Sam N

Sam N

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I'm planning a trip in August:

Munich -> Various Castles -> Frankfurt -> Cologne -> Rotterdam -> Amsterdam

My dilemma is which cameras to take.

Options are:
- ZI w/ 25/4, 40/1.4... maybe a J-9
- Evil DSLR (40D) w/ 1 or 2 lenses (probably a 17-55 and 1 fast prime (35/1.4?))
- Rolleicord V
- Compact P&S - currently an old Canon but I'd probably just buy a new one

Any ideas on some sort of kit that won't break my back? I'd really like to take the RF and shoot a few rolls of Kodachrome 64 I have before they become even more expired. The Rolleicord is light and would be great for some scenery / castle shots, but it's probably the least practical option. Would I regret lugging around an RF kit plus a DSLR kit? I'm tempted to take RF + Digi-P&S only, and just let the P&S handle the less important shots, but after using a DSLR, P&S images seem so crappy.

Will the 25mm be wide enough for architectural shots, or should I switch to a 21? I'm not adverse to buying a new lens if it would come in handy.

By the way: If you know of any must-see or interesting places along this route, please share.
 
If you want to go back home with a nice photo series of your trip, do yourself a favor and bring the DSLR - standard zoom combo. However, for some interesting street photography the ZI + WA wouldn't be too heavy. I would take one lens only though, a 35mm preferably. The 25 would be too wide for my taste.


Check. Yes, my "Age" changed correctly today... 😉
 
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It kind of depends on what kind of photos you'll be taking. DevilSLR with zoom is definitely more versatile, if you want to take lots of details of architecture for example and not worry about developing 20 rolls of film afterwards. in this case I would take a small film camera as an extra (like a minox 35 or revue 400, or bessa-r with one lens.)

I actually have the same dilemma, I'll be traveling to russia this summer, and I know there will be tons of very different photo opportunities. Family, friends, architecture, street, etc. And I am considering getting a digital P&S for this trip, because I am just not sure that my bessa will be enough.
 
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I've been exploring Istanbul this month, and had a similar dilemma as you when I was preparing to travel.

My first thoughts were to only bring my trusty Bronica RF645, which worked well for me in Italy as my sole camera (with a lot of Fuji Neopan 400).

Then I thought that since I'd be bringing 120 film anyway, my Rollei 3.5E would be nice to have along on the journey. However, a test packing showed that those two would be a heavy combination. Also, I often feel that too many similar choices are confusing to my creative eye. Looking back on it, I think I could have brought the Rollei instead of the Bronica and had some interesting documentation of the city.

Finally, friends at home were disappointed when I said I wouldn't be posting anything to Flickr while I was gone. They won me over, and finally bought the smallest/cheapest digicam I could find in stock: the Nikon Coolpix S210, for $180.

So now, almost a month into the trip, I've found that a MF RF and a cheap P&S to be a wonderful combination. I can actually carry around both without feeling like I'm loaded up with gear, and can even pocket the digicam if I'm going out and don't want to be carrying anything. (Especially good for going out at night or hanging out with folks.) The P&S is especially nice for documentation-style images, where the image is more about the content than the aesthetics. The footprint, working style, images, and attitude of each camera is so different that I don't feel like I'm bringing along duplicate technology.

If you're interested, check out my Flickr set, or my general website here, which also has my writings I've done on the trip.

Hope this helps.

--John
 
Hi Sam
I'd suggest to pack the ZI w/25+40, plus the 40D w/zoom.
While in Amsterdam we could join and spend a few hours location spotting, feel free to borrow my Skopar 21mm.
gr Hans
 
Sam N said:
I'm planning a trip in August:

Munich -> Various Castles -> Frankfurt -> Cologne -> Rotterdam -> Amsterdam

My dilemma is which cameras to take.

Options are:
- ZI w/ 25/4, 40/1.4... maybe a J-9
- Evil DSLR (40D) w/ 1 or 2 lenses (probably a 17-55 and 1 fast prime (35/1.4?))
- Rolleicord V
- Compact P&S - currently an old Canon but I'd probably just buy a new one

Any ideas on some sort of kit that won't break my back? I'd really like to take the RF and shoot a few rolls of Kodachrome 64 I have before they become even more expired. The Rolleicord is light and would be great for some scenery / castle shots, but it's probably the least practical option. Would I regret lugging around an RF kit plus a DSLR kit? I'm tempted to take RF + Digi-P&S only, and just let the P&S handle the less important shots, but after using a DSLR, P&S images seem so crappy.

Will the 25mm be wide enough for architectural shots, or should I switch to a 21? I'm not adverse to buying a new lens if it would come in handy.

By the way: If you know of any must-see or interesting places along this route, please share.
Click to expand...

For p&s's and for zoom flexibility, I'd recommend something like a GX100 for 28mm at its widest..
If you are prepeared to go second hand try a Nikon 8400 - it goes to 24mm.
However, although if you are not satisfied with the quality, then better go with a DP1. DSLR IQ, 28mm fixed with Canon L sharpness. Coming from an RF you will be able to handle the slower functionality.

For a DSLR, try an e-420 with a sigma 10-20mm this will give you 20-40mm.

Darrin
 
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For Castles I'd stay with the fast lens. Overall - one camera only as you will probably do a lot of walking. So - Ikon and 40/1.4. And lots of cash for the Amsterdam. 😉
 
I think both 40D/17-55 and the ZI with a 25 and 40 are valid choices here.. In fact, you could consider taking both..

The ZI would be the ideal compact package for unobtrusively walking through the streets and for cityscapes. The 40D would be perfect for castle interiors where you're facing difficult contrasts due to large dark rooms with very small and high placed windows. The ability to crank up the ISO or fiddle with contrast settings until you get it right is king here.

Don't go mucking about with compacts that have bad high ISO noise and poor AF inside castles..
 
Why not be daring, take just the ZI and the 40? I often travel with just one lens, one camera and one type film. With no gear choices to make, I can focus more on seeing, which leads to better photography and better travel.
 
'where you're facing difficult contrasts due to large dark rooms with very small and high placed windows'

That would seem to be an argument for the latitude of film . . .

03500018.jpg


Castle somewhere in Belgium, Hexar RF, 50 Hex, Delta 400, Tmax Dev
 
Matt(1pt4) said:
'where you're facing difficult contrasts due to large dark rooms with very small and high placed windows'

That would seem to be an argument for the latitude of film . . .
Click to expand...
Absolutely right for B&W..

Though for color, I think I'd still favor the high ISOs, feedback and control I'd get with a DSLR..
 
I beg to differ wit many of the views expressed. I have been to some parts of Europe many times, mainly Austria, Germany, Switzerland and Italy. My camera gear would consist of a Digital P&S (Fuji E900), an analog P&S (Olympus Miu II) for backup. The rest would be 120, normally a Rolleiflex TLR Planar 75/3.5 and an Agfa Isolette III Uncoupled Rangefinder. The Olympus would very rarely be used. Most pics would be taken on 120. The main reason for the 120 bias was maily because only with this format I can do big enlargements (24x36in) afterwards. With 135 this is not possible. And even if possible, the images would not be as sharp due to the small film size. There many places one would visit only once in a lifetime. The idea of being able to do big enlargements would be an essential. There are something that Digi or 135 just would not do. Do consider a package based on 120. You won't regret it when you see the big blowups.
 
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All of the above are right, of course.

What sort of photos do you want to come back with? Windscale wants to do very big enlargements, but maybe you don't. Personally, my travel kit is a good small digital P+S and either a light MF (my Mamiya 6 with one wide lens) OR Leica with a 25mm and a 50mm.

It is limiting, of course, but liberating too. And yes, I have missed shots that I could have done better with other gear, but I hate carrying lots of stuff.

One trip that was dissatisfying was going around Mexico with just a Leica and one 35mm lens. I really needed wider than that.

As far as your question about how wide to go, there's always a place where even wider would have been better. I think 25mm is good. Plenty wide, but not bizarrely so.
 
Sam N said:
I'm planning a trip in August:

Munich -> Various Castles -> Frankfurt -> Cologne -> Rotterdam -> Amsterdam

My dilemma is which cameras to take.

Options are:
- ZI w/ 25/4, 40/1.4... maybe a J-9
- Evil DSLR (40D) w/ 1 or 2 lenses (probably a 17-55 and 1 fast prime (35/1.4?))
- Rolleicord V
- Compact P&S - currently an old Canon but I'd probably just buy a new one

Any ideas on some sort of kit that won't break my back? I'd really like to take the RF and shoot a few rolls of Kodachrome 64 I have before they become even more expired. The Rolleicord is light and would be great for some scenery / castle shots, but it's probably the least practical option. Would I regret lugging around an RF kit plus a DSLR kit? I'm tempted to take RF + Digi-P&S only, and just let the P&S handle the less important shots, but after using a DSLR, P&S images seem so crappy.

Will the 25mm be wide enough for architectural shots, or should I switch to a 21? I'm not adverse to buying a new lens if it would come in handy.

By the way: If you know of any must-see or interesting places along this route, please share.
Click to expand...

Sam, I just came back from a trip that took me in the opposite way: Amsterdam first, then Germany. While it's the first time I visit the Netherlands, it's not my first German trip. You can say I have a bit of experience...

Here it is:

Take small cameras, wide and fast lenses. Medium format will only bog you down, but if you like it that much, take it with. In all my three trips to Germany I've taken all my Leica arsenal:

Two M6TTL bodies
28, 35, 50, 90 and 135 lenses (the longest being the least used)
B&W (Scala, Agfa, Ilford)
Kodachrome 64
Ektachrome 200
Some Provia 400 (pushability for night shots)

I often went walking with two bodies (one with a 35, the other with a 28) and two additional lenses (50 and 90, though ocassionally I took the 135). That was more than enough for yours-truly. Mind you: in August you'll find crowds EVERYWHERE, so make your life easy, you'll be on your feet a lot.

As for places to see... I haven't been to Munich or Frankfurt (except the latter's airport), but I was in Koln briefly, and the areas adjacent to the Dom (cathedral) are nice, though a bit too modern. Look for Photo Gregor to drool (prices will scare you, so don't go if it's open) and climb the steps to the top of the cathedral. It's worth it.

In Amsterdam, a walk along my favorite canal, the Prinzengraacht, is a must. There's a nice district too, called Jordan, with gorgeous streets. The bridges over the Prinzengraacht that lead to the Jordan are quite picturesque, but then, what's not pretty in Amsterdam?

One thing: prices and hotels.

If you're going to be there in August, book a hotel room now, and be ready to pay through the nose. Meals are expensive (comparatively, of course), and so are drinks, but then, the Dutch will speak in (flawless) English to you, and believe me if I tell you they are a charming bunch.

I only took slow film, except for a few rolls of Provia, which I wanted to use at nights, rated at 1600. Otherwise, the sun was so intense that I was forced to shoot mostly at 1/1000 f5.6 and smaller, from mid morning to a little before dusk. If you take anything faster than 400 and, like yours-truly, like to shoot with the lens wide open, don't forget a ND filter.

I hope this helps! 🙂 Keep us posted of your progress in the planning stages! 🙂
 
john_s said:
All of the above are right, of course.

What sort of photos do you want to come back with? Windscale wants to do very big enlargements, but maybe you don't. Personally, my travel kit is a good small digital P+S and either a light MF (my Mamiya 6 with one wide lens) OR Leica with a 25mm and a 50mm.

It is limiting, of course, but liberating too. And yes, I have missed shots that I could have done better with other gear, but I hate carrying lots of stuff.

One trip that was dissatisfying was going around Mexico with just a Leica and one 35mm lens. I really needed wider than that.

As far as your question about how wide to go, there's always a place where even wider would have been better. I think 25mm is good. Plenty wide, but not bizarrely so.
Click to expand...

Wise words, John.

To me, a 28mm is already plenty wide. I used to think I would need a 21mm lens for these trips (wide streets, tall buildings), but the 28 Elmarit more than covers my needs in that aspect.

Take care! 🙂
 
Sam N said:
I'm planning a trip in August:

Munich -> Various Castles -> Frankfurt -> Cologne -> Rotterdam -> Amsterdam

My dilemma is which cameras to take.

Options are:
- ZI w/ 25/4, 40/1.4... maybe a J-9
- Evil DSLR (40D) w/ 1 or 2 lenses (probably a 17-55 and 1 fast prime (35/1.4?))
- Rolleicord V
- Compact P&S - currently an old Canon but I'd probably just buy a new one

By the way: If you know of any must-see or interesting places along this route, please share.
Click to expand...


You will need some wide lens and fast lens for dark interior shots inside churches and castles. Keepthings basic and manageable. You will not regret doing so.


My own preference:

Either plan 1:
- Evil DSLR (40D) w/ 1 or 2 lenses (probably a 17-55 and 1 fast prime (35/1.4?))
- Rolleicord V

or Plan 2:

ZI w/ 25/4, 40/1.4... maybe a J-9
Rolleicord V


Explore villages where only locals go to. Don't waste all the days on tourist attractions. Talk with some locals to get directions. Go up church towers. Then take photos down. Visit the old parts of the cities. "Alt Stadt" ==> old town

Go to small villages for biergarten relaxation. Stay at peoples' homes ["pension"] once in a while instead of hotels.

Eat bakery!

If you drive, reserve from the USA a car through Hertz International and ask for a pre-paid voucher. This way, you avoid the 17%+ VAT.
Call them. The prepaid voucher plan is not on the internet sites. I do this each time. Pay for a gasoline car, then ask the local Hetz dealer to replace it for no extra charge by a diesel car. Paying up front for a diesel car is expensive in the usa. You could save 50% of the cost.



Enjoy the trip.
 
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Raid: Is there some way of setting up "pension" online?

Thanks for all the excellent suggestions, especially the ones about specific places to see. I hope to meet up with some Dutch RFFers.

I'm going to try carrying different kits for day trips between now and the time I leave. I'll take as much as I can without feeling weighed down too much. I'll probably end up with the DSLR+RF kit and 2 of each type of lens.
 
In Germany Diesel is only 3-4 Euro Cent cheaper than Gasoline right now. The difference was much greater some month ago. So it's probably not worth the effort of switching to a Diesel Car.

I don't know if you like old industry architecture. I do. An hour away from Cologne you find old industry sites where back to the 1980's coal an steel was produced. They transfered these sites to very interesting museums.

There are "Landschaftspark Nord" in Duisburg and "Zeche Zollverein" in Essen.

You can search in Flickr for the words Landschaftspark or Zollverein to look at many photos.
 
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