fidget
Lemon magnet
I've had a fascination with 120 folders for a long time. I've had a few simple models and been disappointed with the results.
Recent attempts (with 35mm RF as well as folders) has indicated that it's my method which does not help. Can't really hand hold a 6x6 at 1/100 and expect pin sharp results
I recall a few years ago when taking photos with my 6x4.5 Ensign, how the lens assy jumped when the release was pressed. Made me think that I needed shutters that had a remote thread on them.
I'm trying again, with my Moskva 5. I believe that it should give good results, provided I do not expect to use it as I use my 35mm rfs. This shutter has a strong spring at 1/250, but no remote chord facility on the shutter. I will try to use the self timer, although this jams on 1/250th (yet to fix if these tests show that it's worthwhile). I will also try to wind on to the next frame only when set up and ready to shoot, hopefully to keep the film flat.
I read somewhere?!?! that the Moskva 5 had won the Soviet camera of the year award for 1960-ish, so should be capable????
For this activity I would expect to use for landscape type shots, from a tripod.
Do you have any hints and tips on how to get the best from a folder?
Dave....
Recent attempts (with 35mm RF as well as folders) has indicated that it's my method which does not help. Can't really hand hold a 6x6 at 1/100 and expect pin sharp results
I recall a few years ago when taking photos with my 6x4.5 Ensign, how the lens assy jumped when the release was pressed. Made me think that I needed shutters that had a remote thread on them.
I'm trying again, with my Moskva 5. I believe that it should give good results, provided I do not expect to use it as I use my 35mm rfs. This shutter has a strong spring at 1/250, but no remote chord facility on the shutter. I will try to use the self timer, although this jams on 1/250th (yet to fix if these tests show that it's worthwhile). I will also try to wind on to the next frame only when set up and ready to shoot, hopefully to keep the film flat.
I read somewhere?!?! that the Moskva 5 had won the Soviet camera of the year award for 1960-ish, so should be capable????
For this activity I would expect to use for landscape type shots, from a tripod.
Do you have any hints and tips on how to get the best from a folder?
Dave....
Solinar
Analog Preferred
Start with a CLA - lens cleaned and properly collimated - RF calibrated.
With regards to holding the camera steady - I have found that using a soft shutter release helps me keep my Agfa Record III steadier.
Unfortunately, this isn't an option on my Bessa II - which requires me to support the front platform with open fingers and to press the shutter release lever ever so slowly with my thumb.
The shutter release on a folder generally has more travel than modern cameras and the feel at the moment of release is different - generally there is slight tension up to the moment of release then nothing.
It's best to adjust the moment of release by rotating the shutter body on the standard - so that it releases before the release linkage bottoms out. You need a proper lens spanner to loosen and then tighten the shutter retaining nut. Make sure that the adjustment does not prevent the front platform and standard from closing up smoothly.
With regards to holding the camera steady - I have found that using a soft shutter release helps me keep my Agfa Record III steadier.
Unfortunately, this isn't an option on my Bessa II - which requires me to support the front platform with open fingers and to press the shutter release lever ever so slowly with my thumb.
The shutter release on a folder generally has more travel than modern cameras and the feel at the moment of release is different - generally there is slight tension up to the moment of release then nothing.
It's best to adjust the moment of release by rotating the shutter body on the standard - so that it releases before the release linkage bottoms out. You need a proper lens spanner to loosen and then tighten the shutter retaining nut. Make sure that the adjustment does not prevent the front platform and standard from closing up smoothly.
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
it's very strange what you say. To me, at least. These folders have leaf shutters - central lens shutters - they are mostly very well equilibrated against shutter vibrations.
I would suspect that the vibration comes from the way you press the shutter release, not from the working of the shutter itself...
Maybe this is the same as what Solinar says above.
I would suspect that the vibration comes from the way you press the shutter release, not from the working of the shutter itself...
Maybe this is the same as what Solinar says above.
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
fidget said:
If you lived in a [former]communist country you'd know that such an award means nothing on earth. If you did not, I can tell you: it means nothing on earth.
However, accidentally i hear usually moskvas are good cameras.
lubitel
Well-known
I have a Agfa super isolette, and the shutter release is wonderful. quiet and smooth like a leica. And I even once had a good shot at 1/15th
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=36353
dont have experience with other folders
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=36353
dont have experience with other folders
Silva Lining
CanoHasseLeica
I use a lot of the old Voigltander folders - the original pre-war Bessa RF and my favourite - Perkeo IIIe _ I find the having a remote release helps to avoid shake - I also carry a mini tripod which helps too. Although on the Perkeo, at least the shutter is pretty smooth
fidget
Lemon magnet
Thanks for the ideas. The Moskva 5 doesn't have a cable release on the shutter, only the one in the release button on the body, hence my use of the self timer. These timers are notoriously unreliable, no surprise that mine sticks on 1/250, I think that it has to provide more pressure at that speed.
I want to verify that it is a capable camera before I commit to a full service etc...
As to the "award" for best Pro-photog camera 1960, could have been a "limited" short list you think?
I want to verify that it is a capable camera before I commit to a full service etc...
As to the "award" for best Pro-photog camera 1960, could have been a "limited" short list you think?
kully
Happy Snapper
The shutter release on the Moskva is a great piece of Wallace and Gromit engineering - but I end up having to press it so hard to get all the linkages to move I know I have camera shake. Having to contort my right-handed limbs to operate the thing doesn't help either
I bypass this now by pressing pressing on the last (or last but one) linkage instead - it means a lot less camera shake.
I havn't used mine for a while now as it has a light-leak.
I bypass this now by pressing pressing on the last (or last but one) linkage instead - it means a lot less camera shake.
I havn't used mine for a while now as it has a light-leak.
Gray Fox
Well-known
I have gotten good results from a tripod using a cable release, but this Moskva 5 had Certo 6's full treatment and seems solid and smooth at the same time.
literiter
Well-known
It is not adviseable, perhaps not even possible to use the use the self timer at the highest speed. I suggest you not try.
Make sure the lens standard is really firm.
Open the camera before you advance the film. The film will be sucked away from the pressure plate and image will be compromised.
The focus on these cameras is easy to get out of whack, but easy to repair. get this checked.
I have had excellent results with these things even at 1 second using a cable release, and 1/25th sec. handheld.
Make sure the lens standard is really firm.
Open the camera before you advance the film. The film will be sucked away from the pressure plate and image will be compromised.
The focus on these cameras is easy to get out of whack, but easy to repair. get this checked.
I have had excellent results with these things even at 1 second using a cable release, and 1/25th sec. handheld.
dazedgonebye
Veteran
If you disable the multiple exposure prevention on the Moskva 5, the shutter release is greatly improved.
No, I don't know how to do it. I had it done by Certo6 during a CLA.
No, I don't know how to do it. I had it done by Certo6 during a CLA.
fidget
Lemon magnet
I've had chance to run a roll of HP5+ through the Moskva. Past attempts at using the body mounted release button have, I believe, added to movement in the lens assy as the resistance pressure of the shutter lever is overcome. This is all the harder at 250th. So it seems that using the self timer is the gentlest option for me at present, although I do take your point about using it at 250th, this speed I will avoid.
The roll came out very well, excusing one double exposure and one blank exposure (where I wasn't sure if I had made an exposure so wound on.. .)
Only throw away shots to check for focus and sharpness. It is very promising indeed given the flat lighting on the day.
No light leaks, the tape over the red windows doing its job nicely .
It's worth doing a CLA on the camera, the slowest speeds are a little sticky and I suspect that the lens assembly is not quite square to the film plane, so will need some work (although i now wish that i had tried a few frames to check if this is a problem). It will need some thought too, it's not clear what to move/pack to get the lens assembly square-on.
Edit, a further scan at 2400 shows the text of the plaque is breaking up with the grain. Hmm, maybe this is well worth the effort to sort out the problems..
Dave
The roll came out very well, excusing one double exposure and one blank exposure (where I wasn't sure if I had made an exposure so wound on..
.) Only throw away shots to check for focus and sharpness. It is very promising indeed given the flat lighting on the day.
No light leaks, the tape over the red windows doing its job nicely
. It's worth doing a CLA on the camera, the slowest speeds are a little sticky and I suspect that the lens assembly is not quite square to the film plane, so will need some work (although i now wish that i had tried a few frames to check if this is a problem). It will need some thought too, it's not clear what to move/pack to get the lens assembly square-on.
Edit, a further scan at 2400 shows the text of the plaque is breaking up with the grain. Hmm, maybe this is well worth the effort to sort out the problems..
Dave
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shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
Dave, that's a darn sharp lens on the Moskva 5, probably a Tessar design.
I never have a problem with shake with my folders. But come to think of it, i haven't got a chance to shoot in low-light with them either.
As far as sharpness goes, this one is from a Solinar. I put a ND4 filter in front of the camera and adjusted the exposure for it.
I never have a problem with shake with my folders. But come to think of it, i haven't got a chance to shoot in low-light with them either.
As far as sharpness goes, this one is from a Solinar. I put a ND4 filter in front of the camera and adjusted the exposure for it.
oftheherd
Veteran
I think pressing the shutter release on a folder isn't that much different from on a 35mm in technique at least. At the risk of insult which isn't intended, can you put your thumb on the bottom of the camera and your index finger on the shutter release, then squeeze them together? Actually, I usually just grip the camera tight like I do for 35mm cameras, and depress the shutter release. Is it possible the shutter release needs a lubrication? Hope you work it out as I enjoy my folders and like to see others be able to do the same.
fidget
Lemon magnet
Nice rendition of the car Will. I like this shot.
I hope that the shutter will trip easier when serviced. It's a shame that it doesn't have a lens mount for a remote cable release.
This is giving me GAS for the "right" folder for my walking/backpacking. I feel a new thread coming on.....
Dave...
I hope that the shutter will trip easier when serviced. It's a shame that it doesn't have a lens mount for a remote cable release.
This is giving me GAS for the "right" folder for my walking/backpacking. I feel a new thread coming on.....
Dave...
bcostin
Well-known
I had/have the same problem with my old Bessa. I think it's a matter of technique, too, one of those things that becomes more natural with practice.
Personally I avoid self-timers on older cameras. After a decade or two they tend to turn into little gummed-up time bombs just waiting to jam unexpectedly. They scare me.
Personally I avoid self-timers on older cameras. After a decade or two they tend to turn into little gummed-up time bombs just waiting to jam unexpectedly. They scare me.
mgilbuena
San Francisco Bay Area
Reviving an old thread.. but I've encountered the shake present on my Moskva-5 as well.
I will try tripping the shutter on the lens itself instead of the shutter release on the body, but I was curious: is there anything else I can do to reduce vibration? Being that this is a lefty camera, holding it is a bit awkward for me. Do people typically cradle their folder like a SLR and place one of their hands under the lens for stabilization? I haven't done this and may be the reason for the vibration in my photos..
Any other tips are much appreciated. I know a tripod would help, but let's just say I'm running around on the street without one.
I will try tripping the shutter on the lens itself instead of the shutter release on the body, but I was curious: is there anything else I can do to reduce vibration? Being that this is a lefty camera, holding it is a bit awkward for me. Do people typically cradle their folder like a SLR and place one of their hands under the lens for stabilization? I haven't done this and may be the reason for the vibration in my photos..
Any other tips are much appreciated. I know a tripod would help, but let's just say I'm running around on the street without one.
charjohncarter
Veteran
I have a short cable release that I sometimes use when handholding. It seems to eliminate the down movement when pressing the shutter. I just leave it on for the next shot.