Going Digital to Film - M6 Advice

There seems to be a lot of advice here that's trying to push up you budget:
Your M6 + VC 50 seems like a great place to start.
The M6 classic is fine - there all I use 12+ years and no problems.
If it's not broken : don't fix it - i.e. no need for a CLA until there is a clearly identifiable problem

Any scanner will get you going - with the original negatives it always going to be possible to redo a few later or professionally if you really need to go super size.
Better still, hire darkroom time an make some real silver prints.

Spend any spare money on a second lens, film or travel.
 
I shot for 15 years with an FM2. I love my Leica, but I don't regret using the FM2 one bit. On the other hand, I scanned on a Epson 3170 flatbed, the v500 of a few years ago, for a couple of years before going to ScanDual IV and more recently a Coolscan 9000. If I could trade my Leica for all the time I spent scanning on a flatbed, I'd do it. There's just no comparison.

If it was my $2000 to spend, I'd buy at Coolscan 5000 first, and then find a body and lens I could afford. There are plenty of cheap and wonderful SLRs out there. Minolta, Olympus, Canon, Nikon and Contax all made great 35mm cameras and very good lenses that can be had for next to nothing these days. Spend whatever is left on corn flakes and film.

The Leica will always be there later.
 
I have never scanned FP4, but based on prints I have made and the tone curve, it should be ok.

Plus x can`t be made to scan to my standards for reasons I do not understand. It works, but with full tone range subjects, the highlights block and cutting back developint time does not help.

A few years back, Leica Photography International did a piece on scanning different monochrome films,and they found distinct differences also. Kodak has recently modified the Portra films and they scan way better than the original Portra.

It would be a shame to use Leica cameras and a consumer grade scanner although it will make decent scans for web use and small prints. Nikon has dropped the scanners, so getting something decent at an affordable price in the future is going to be a problem. At that point, you will be have to pay for commercial scans at really high prices or buy a drum scanner at $20,000 or make wet prints and scan on an Epson.

I am sitting on more than 10 Leica bodies and a darkroom with 7 enlargers from Focomat IC to V35 to 4x5 Omegas which I will not sell, but I tell you the D60 is a capable camera. Learn to use it and accept progress.

A few points, expose the D60 exactly as you would film, ie sunny 16 rule. Buy a decent lens for it like the 35 1.8 if you want a normal auto focus. I almost never use auto white bal. Shoot raw. Use NX2 for conversion which is $119 at Cameta camera and it reads all the camera settings. Except for dodge and burn, if you get it right in camera, it is open and save as a JPEG. I see no reason to fool around 20 minutes.

The only thing I find with Nikons digital stuff, is the meters overexpose on overcast days.
I use spot meter built in, meter the brightest sky and deepest shadow and split the difference. Don`t blow the highlights. Turn on image review, and check the histogram to make sure. Tap the shutter to turn it off fast as the LCD uses batteries up fast. I have a D40, D200, and D700 and all behave in a similar manner.

Go to photnet.com and post some incamera pictures ( just convert raws to JPEG) and ask why these need 20 minutes to fix. You can also add a pic here and people can tell what you are doing wrong. There are many experts who will tell you about post processing and the best way to go about it. You really need t learn to control the camera so it does what you want it to do.

Nikon Cafe.com is also a good resource.

D60 might be considered off topic here.

You are too young to go back in time. I been doing this 50 years so I have what I need, but for young people it is different story.
 
I really don't mind the process of developing - in fact, that's one of the reasons I want to switch to film. I'll be able to develop all of my own stuff on campus (which is why I want a scanner to upload my stuff online).

When I say that I don't want to spend much of my time post-processing, I mean that I don't really care to sit at my computer and fuss over saturation, hue, and luminance.

I shoot JPEG + RAW, so I have some great shots right out of the camera too. The main driving force for me in wanting to switch is not that, but rather the connection to the camera.

Leica was my only thought when deciding on a film camera to move on to. For me, it's personal, in that I was born and raised in Germany, and it's far more meaningful to me to have a true German camera, particularly one with Leica's history.

Like I said earlier, I have access to an old Minolta, and I find the process far more satisfying. Honestly, I don't understand the point of a modern DSLR - it does all the work for you. All you're really doing is picking the subject. Hell, you can put it on a tripod, adjust some settings, get coffee, and you'll have all the shots that you need.

As a hobby, what's the point?
 
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You also could consider a Zeiss Ikon Contax -- another German camera with an excellent line of lenses.

I would definitely urge you to try a few different makes and find the camera that "feels right" to you.

But certainly, if you end up with an M6, you can't find any fault with that.

I guess I did have a few comments after all.

By the way, I don't mind scanning. I'm using an Epson Expression Pro 1600, and I've scanned several thousands slides over the years. Dust is the biggest annoyance followed by color correction.

On the used market, the HP PhotoSmart S20 scanner is a very nice piece. I regret giving mine to a friend.

With a flatbed, the bigger challenge is keeping the negative as flat as possible.
 
Not sure where scanning came up, but I don't think home scanners do any better than the huge Costco Noritsu ones.

I was away from my scanner for awhile, but had access to a tank and chemicals, and sent my negs to a follow RFFer friend who used a pro home scanner, did an excellent job of scanning, and sent me back CDs. The pro home scanner was not noticeably better than Costco, or my $30 Epson V100 that my cat sits on to warm up.

Just find a place with a big Noritsu scanner, and enjoy your time taking better photo captures.
 
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For a college student you are talking yourself into a big investment in the cash department and you say the will be nothing left over to repair your camera in the event of failure. M6s are very good but as with everything there is the possibility of trouble so is that a good idea? You may not spent less time post processing with film than with digital if you are scanning. Your costs may also go up using film compared to digital per image. That is the practical kill joy side of the equation. If you can handle all that, then why not do it.

Bob
 
If you plan to shoot ~ 20 rolls film per month (as I do) I would either go with a scanner that can batch-scan 24 frames (Epson V700 / V750) or one complete film-strip LS4000ED / LS5000ED. The quality of the scans of a LS4000ED and Epson V700 is comparable, not to much - visible - difference if you get some practice.

A nice M6 (classic) should not cost more than ~ USD1100 if bought from private or ~ USD1200 if bought from a reliable dealer (with warranty). I would use such a camera until somethings breaks and then have it serviced (overhauled) by Leica.
 
Cabron said:
I really don't mind the process of developing - in fact, that's one of the reasons I want to switch to film. I'll be able to develop all of my own stuff on campus (which is why I want a scanner to upload my stuff online).

When I say that I don't want to spend much of my time post-processing, I mean that I don't really care to sit at my computer and fuss over saturation, hue, and luminance.

I shoot JPEG + RAW, so I have some great shots right out of the camera too. The main driving force for me in wanting to switch is not that, but rather the connection to the camera.

Leica was my only thought when deciding on a film camera to move on to. For me, it's personal, in that I was born and raised in Germany, and it's far more meaningful to me to have a true German camera, particularly one with Leica's history.

Like I said earlier, I have access to an old Minolta, and I find the process far more satisfying. Honestly, I don't understand the point of a modern DSLR - it does all the work for you. All you're really doing is picking the subject. Hell, you can put it on a tripod, adjust some settings, get coffee, and you'll have all the shots that you need.

As a hobby, what's the point?
Click to expand...
So, get an M6, lens and scanner and ignore a lot of what has been said here. Don't read the "Zen film/digital gratification" thread -- it's silly anyway. 😀

I do agree to make a careful choice about the scanner. For me, the learning curve on scanning/post is significant enough that I wouldn't want to spend the cash on a particular scanner then decide it wasn't cutting it, lose money on selling it and buying something different, then have more learning curve.

If you are going to be scanning mainly just to upload to the web and ultimate image quality isn't that important (i.e., you're not being marked in a class based on what you've uploaded), and you will be making your "fine" prints in the darkroom, then I'd say invest in something like an Epson flat bed. Once you're out of school, if you fell the need and can afford a real upgrade, the depreciation of the Epson will be insignificant. I have a dedicated film scanner, but it does not do batch scanning. So I can't efficiently make digital contact sheets, which is something I'd like to be able to do.
 
digitalintrigue said:
You may want to read link in the first post of the 'film zen vs digital gratification' thread that is ongoing.
Click to expand...

And you might want to consider that it takes just as much technical know how and proficiency to scan properly and time efficiently as it does to operate a camera.

I do on the oder of 100-200 high res Kodachrome scans a month and find it is really easy to engage in a process that makes dust nearly nonexistent.

Sure, the equipment is not cheap, but the results are outstanding, like the 7 foot wide shot from Kodachrome 25 in my XPan that is above my bed.

Not everyone sucks at scanning..
 
Dan, I don't recall saying that it doesn't take technical know-how, or that everyone sucks at scanning.

In fact, I mentioned that there is a learning curve associated with scanning. I'm sure your first scan was not nearly as good as the one from your Xpan. 🙂
 
KM-25 said:
I am glad you said this, it made me think what my first scan was. In 1994, I scanned a dozen Kodachrome slides for a story I was doing at the newspaper I was freelancing for on this scanner:

http://cgi.ebay.com/LEAFSCAN-45-SLI...yZ101353QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

They actually came out fantastic..🙂
Click to expand...
My first Kodachrome scan (K25) turned out to be excellent, too. It wasn't nearly a Leaf scanner, but what the hey. When you have decent equipment, there's no accounting for dumb luck, eh? 🙂
 
Hi Cabron,

I'm a new RF user, been using my M6 classic for about 6 month now, and I love taking pictures with it. I carry it everywhere and most of the time I leave my dslr at home.

Since you're a student and not on an unlimited budget, I would suggest you put the cost of film and developing in your consideration. If you're going to shoot 20 rolls or more per month then it's not going to be cheap, unless of course you develop it yourself.

I used Nikon FM2 for 12 years before I switched to Canon dslr in 2006, before fm2 I used minolta xgm for 13 years. The fm2 is a manual camera, as manual as my M6, while the xgm has an auto (aperture) setting like M6TTL but I never used the A setting. Anyway, when I switched to canon dslr, since I didn't know of any other way of how to operate a camera other than in manual way/mode, even the AF on the dslr was a first auto for me, I use the dslr in manual mode.

After 3 years of digital SLR, I still use it in manual mode and I find there are not many diffrerences between using the dslr and the slr, or when I use my M6. The only differences are the medium where it stores the images, a roll of film vs a CF card, and when shooting M6 or FM2 I can not shoot as many pictures as when I shoot with dslr. And the other difference is the auto focus on dlsr.

What I'm saying is, you can use your D60 in manual mode, do all the work yourself and not letting the camera do all the work for you. You can manually focus your lens, though I myself don't do it cause the viewfinder of the dslr is so tiny. You can also ignore the meter read and use sunny 16 rule.

Anyway, get the M6, it's a great camera and I'm sure you will love it. Just be prepared for a GAS attack😀

Bob
 
I know this has been suggested here but I'm going to throw it in anyway.

There's another scanner, it's not exceptional by today's standards but it's quite good: Nikon Coolscan III. It's fantastic for slides (E6 and Kodachrome) with a decent resolution (4000x3000 or something like that) and it has ICE. The downsides are:

- 8bit per colour channel so some colours can 'blow out' especially red, newer scanners have 14bit per channel
- It's SCSI based, but most come with a PCI card you can plug into your PC or Mac
- You'll need VueScan to use it on XP and Vista

But it is cheap for what it is. It's pretty good on C41 and B&W too but you may need a bit more fiddling in Photoshop whereas my chromes usually scan in great without any messing.

About £50 is the cheapest I've seen them go for. Certainly it'll give you better output than many flatbeds and I'd say you'd need an Epson v500/4490 before you get somewhere equal to the Coolscan III.

---

My real suggestion though is that you seriously consider some darkroom equipment. It might sound daunting right now but such good equipment is frankly being chucked out at giveaway prices. I recently saw a complete darkroom kit (we're talking processing tank, changing bag, measuring tube things, tongs, themometer, paper dish trays (for 7x5 and 10x8), an enlarger (Meopta Axomat 5 Colour) with half decent Anaret lens, 10x8 easel for a measly £20. There's a learning curve but IMHO the best way to appreciate film is to print in the darkroom.

Granted if you spend a lot of money on a scanner and printer (We're talking over a thousand pounds, nearer £3000) you will get stunning results from a hybrid process, but at nearly £1500 for the best scanner, and £1000 for a very very good printer, we're talking big money.

Compare that to the £20 darkroom above (and that's not rare, I've picked up all sorts of stuff for no money at all) you can see some favourable outcomes and you can get stunning results for much cheaper than the hybrid process.

Running cost wise, well I only print B&W, I don't do C41 printing yet (and I don't do C41 processing at the moment but could do) as mostly I shoot slides for colour, scan them and then stick them on a USB stick and print them down at the local minilab or use Cibachrome printing. But on black and white:

5l of Xtol developer - £6 including distilled water, this will process about 16 films in stock solution, 32 in 1:1 dillution, so even at stock it's economical. Stop bath and fixer comes to about £7 again and the stop and fixer can be kept within reason and used for printing. 1 litre of Multigrade paper developer is about £8 and that will do one heck of a lot of 10x8's (More than 500 10x8 RCs I guess) -- bottom line is B&W development is very economical and also more importantly incredibly fun.

It sounds like I'm being a Luddite to say it (and I am not, I develop websites for a living and like on the whole, computers, so there's your Luddite) but when I see a nice split-tone printed 11x14 Tri-X shot that's come from my fair useless hands 🙂 -- I can't think of anything that much better than a nice traditionally printed B&W negative. The tone and texture is great even on cheap RC paper. Get some nice warmtone FB paper and oh my.....

Give it some thought, it's easy really, it just takes time, patience and a little bit of love. But then, since when were the best things in life served up warm and easily? 🙂

You might just get the best of both worlds with this option. Works for me and I am by no means rich!
 
Lilserenity, this is so true about darkroom equipment being given away, I am building a *monster* darkroom because of the costs, or lack thereof.

For about $740 U.S. in the past three weeks, I got:

Beseler 45MX, new condition, condenser and Aristo cold light head with Metrolux II compensating timer & probe, 5 neg carriers, 3 lens boards.

Omega D2, great condition with Aristo Cold light head, 4 neg carriers, 4 lens boards / cones.

Jobo processor CPA2 / CPP2 with 4 drums
80mm 5.6 EL Nikkor
135mm 5.6 EL Nikkor
100mm 3.5 Ektar
50mm 2.8 APO Rodenstock
90mm 4.0 APO Rodenstock
150 5.6 non-APO Rodenstock.
Cachet Eco-wash 16x20 print washer
Zone VI film washer
Arkay RC 2100 20 inch print dryer
5-Zone VI 20 x 24 print drying screens
6 foot stainless steel darkroom sink
1-contact proofer
1-8x10 easel
3-11x14 easels
1-20x24 easel
2-grain focusers
4-foot switches
2-Gralab 450 timers
6-safelights
5-8x10 trays
4-11x14 trays
3-16x20 trays
3-20x24 trays

And tons of other goodies that are too numerous to mention. The key here is to use Craigslist or community college sales and deal with them in person.

And yes, analog prints from black and white leave digital in a pathetic layer of dust...🙂
 
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