scautez
Established
Hi All,
For a while I have been using my Leica M2 with the Voigtlander VC Meter II sitting comfortably in the cold shoe. The batteries were dying recently, and I took the opportunity to start using the camera without the meter attached. I must say I have found the experience quite liberating, and also sharpens the sunny 16 skills. It also saves the time of setting the dials on the meter and transposing to the camera body. I was wondering if other people find the experience of not using a meter more enjoyable that having it available?
For a while I have been using my Leica M2 with the Voigtlander VC Meter II sitting comfortably in the cold shoe. The batteries were dying recently, and I took the opportunity to start using the camera without the meter attached. I must say I have found the experience quite liberating, and also sharpens the sunny 16 skills. It also saves the time of setting the dials on the meter and transposing to the camera body. I was wondering if other people find the experience of not using a meter more enjoyable that having it available?
Michael I.
Well-known
I shoot 80% of my bw film unmetered, for years now. It's pretty fun, and hardly is an issue
Uncle Brian
Member
Color negative film is so forgiving that sunny 16 will do the job if you apply a bit of skill, and it's so great not to be a slave to the meter readout 
Did a lot of that sort of thing with my Nikon F and it's great fun.
I have also found that putting my F80 onto P mode and treating it like a point and shoot is fun too.
Did a lot of that sort of thing with my Nikon F and it's great fun. I have also found that putting my F80 onto P mode and treating it like a point and shoot is fun too.
markbakovic
Member
count me in!
last few days I've been testing a new-to-me FED2 all meterless, I actually find it a bit hard with 400 ISO film in the rainy weather here for some reason but not so much that I wished I was metering (RF+composition+looking for the next shot while not taking too long a break from work is about the right fun/time balance at the mo).
shot some test rolls with two TLRs early last year and absolutely loved no-meter sunny-16-ing with the 100 ISO film I had*, so much so that I shot my daughter's first few months about 50% meterless on an OM1 (4,2,&100 ISO) [the lightmeter in the camera plays up and I have a weincell in it anyway so arguably "for the love of meterless" was the enabler of any of that photography, including in the hospital the day she was born].
I use the meter in my OM40 by dint of it being hard to ignore (shutter-half-press=meter LEDs in VF) and a handheld for LF predominantly as a crutch because I'm conscious of my inexperience in that format and there's a lot else going on so my cognitive load is high.
I've shot a lot of MF with a Mamiya 645, all metered since I bought the metered prism, but none since my "road to Da-meterless" conversion. I always regarded the (considerable) bulk of the metered prism vs unmetered as a substantial hinderance on that camera, as it makes an already big, heavy lump even more unappealing to take walkies (and harder to fit in a modest sized bag) and also complicates lens changes, but worth it for the convenience and accuracy of the built in system. Now I kinda wish I hadn't given away the meterless prism... though at least as with the OM40 the camera won't work without a battery anyway so...
Meterless for mechanical cameras? Dunno if I'd sign that manifesto but I have forgotten that most photographers see "no built-in meter" as a dealbreaker on non-collectible cameras on several occasions recently... so I may be drifting slowly toward meterless evangelism
*one was a rolleiflex with the sunny 16 table on the back, so I was kinda cheating
last few days I've been testing a new-to-me FED2 all meterless, I actually find it a bit hard with 400 ISO film in the rainy weather here for some reason but not so much that I wished I was metering (RF+composition+looking for the next shot while not taking too long a break from work is about the right fun/time balance at the mo).
shot some test rolls with two TLRs early last year and absolutely loved no-meter sunny-16-ing with the 100 ISO film I had*, so much so that I shot my daughter's first few months about 50% meterless on an OM1 (4,2,&100 ISO) [the lightmeter in the camera plays up and I have a weincell in it anyway so arguably "for the love of meterless" was the enabler of any of that photography, including in the hospital the day she was born].
I use the meter in my OM40 by dint of it being hard to ignore (shutter-half-press=meter LEDs in VF) and a handheld for LF predominantly as a crutch because I'm conscious of my inexperience in that format and there's a lot else going on so my cognitive load is high.
I've shot a lot of MF with a Mamiya 645, all metered since I bought the metered prism, but none since my "road to Da-meterless" conversion. I always regarded the (considerable) bulk of the metered prism vs unmetered as a substantial hinderance on that camera, as it makes an already big, heavy lump even more unappealing to take walkies (and harder to fit in a modest sized bag) and also complicates lens changes, but worth it for the convenience and accuracy of the built in system. Now I kinda wish I hadn't given away the meterless prism... though at least as with the OM40 the camera won't work without a battery anyway so...
Meterless for mechanical cameras? Dunno if I'd sign that manifesto but I have forgotten that most photographers see "no built-in meter" as a dealbreaker on non-collectible cameras on several occasions recently... so I may be drifting slowly toward meterless evangelism
*one was a rolleiflex with the sunny 16 table on the back, so I was kinda cheating
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CharlesDAMorgan
Veteran
I was estimating far better without a meter, especially as uncoupled meters lead to numerous delays. But then I bought a pair of glasses with coatings so reactive that I cannot actually perceive changes in light levels with my eyes, and find them impossible to judge what levels are out there.
They also make focussing on large format next to impossible. I could shoot Specsavers.
They also make focussing on large format next to impossible. I could shoot Specsavers.
retinax
Well-known
Sounds like you metered for every shot. That's not necessary. Even if you don't feel confident estimating exposure, just keep that meter in your pocket and only use it when the lighting changes or gets difficult. I've resolved to go back to metering more when the light is lower as I've recently been too conservative and got some very dense negatives that take ages to print.
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
I went on Boston-Vermont one week trip in December. M4-2, J3, K400.
No lightmeter. All frames were ok, except those taken on landing in Toronto at night with lights turned off. Visible, but dark.
I quit from metering on the street long time ago. I would meter at beginning, sun and shadow sides of the street and this is it.
No lightmeter. All frames were ok, except those taken on landing in Toronto at night with lights turned off
. Visible, but dark.I quit from metering on the street long time ago. I would meter at beginning, sun and shadow sides of the street and this is it.
Ambro51
Collector/Photographer
I’ll meter the overall light conditions for the ISO film I’m using, and go from there without the meter.
Dpingr1
Established
Metering without a camera is a good way to hone the skills. Every now and then when you are outside, guess the exposure for prevailing light, then check with your meter or phone app. If you do that enough, You will be able to gauge the setting to within a stop in no time, in a variety of conditions, and for negative film, that’s close enough. Now that everybody has a phone with them most of the time, it’s easy to do anytime. Not everybody needs this, but it can’t hurt.
nightfly
Well-known
I shot for years without a meter with a Holga, Leica M4-P, Rolleicord V etc.
Mostly this was black and white film but sometimes negative and even slide film.
You get really good at it and it ceases to be much of an issue. You sort of develop your own sense of how you like your photos to come out, particularly if you are also developing them. The combo worked best for me with home developed Tri-X.
The only exception for me was nighttime where I was useless.
One thing is that it makes you question the metering of cameras with built in meters and often either adjust the exposure comp or use it on manual as you get used to your own sense of light and use the meter more as a guide than a gospel.
Mostly this was black and white film but sometimes negative and even slide film.
You get really good at it and it ceases to be much of an issue. You sort of develop your own sense of how you like your photos to come out, particularly if you are also developing them. The combo worked best for me with home developed Tri-X.
The only exception for me was nighttime where I was useless.
One thing is that it makes you question the metering of cameras with built in meters and often either adjust the exposure comp or use it on manual as you get used to your own sense of light and use the meter more as a guide than a gospel.
markjwyatt
Well-known
With film, I like to meter overall scenes, then look at shadows and highlights. From there I can set exposures. I want to get my Minolta spot meter going again. It could be much more useful because I could do a quick survey of a scene and decide how to set an exposure. I am not a big fan of in-camera metering because I know that filter factors do not meter directly, and I am mainly shooting B&W with film. I have one situation where I adapt DKL lenses to M42 where I need an in-camera meter because I really do not know what aperture I am at (the adapter scale is generalized), but then I have no filters for those lenses, and one of them has no easy means of adding a filter (maybe I can find a push-on).
css9450
Veteran
Exactly. In bright sunny daylight, I use Sunny 16, but I carry a handheld meter for those conditions where the light is less than full sun. It helps to guess beforehand: Is it one stop off? Three stops? Four? If you can do it reasonably accurately, its a valuable skill.
ACullen
Well-known
That’s pretty much my approach too. Occasionally I’ll whip out the meter to double check the light. Works well for both B&W and C41.
mpaniagua
Newby photographer
Go with Sunny 16 on Leicas LTM and on Rolleiflex's.
Normally use the lightmeter when shooting indoors. Totally suck at reading the light indoors so need to rely on meter or use a flash.
Agree, going meter is quite refreshing and fun. I think it get you more in contact with your pictures.
Regards
Marcelo
Normally use the lightmeter when shooting indoors. Totally suck at reading the light indoors so need to rely on meter or use a flash.
Agree, going meter is quite refreshing and fun. I think it get you more in contact with your pictures.
Regards
Marcelo
Ambro51
Collector/Photographer
The Gossen Pilot my Wife gave me for Christmas about 40 years ago has never needed to be replaced. It’s been through a Lot of different camera love affairs
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Daylight is easy. Indoor dark lit tricky.
Get a Kodak Pocket Photo Guide book and study the recommendations. It addresses exposure based on scene types. Once you "get" it, and build some experience from doing it, working without a meter is very easy.
G
Get a Kodak Pocket Photo Guide book and study the recommendations. It addresses exposure based on scene types. Once you "get" it, and build some experience from doing it, working without a meter is very easy.
G
drewbarb
picnic like it's 1999
It's quite liberating to shoot without being bound to in-camera metering. I shoot with everything from my M3's to medium and large format cameras without scrupulously metering every frame. I do carry a handheld incident meter which I consult from time to time, but I just tend to take a few readings to check what the brightest highlights and darkest shadows are and then I put the meter away and just shoot, making adjustments as needed by eye. If the light changes dramatically and I have time I will pull out the meter and check again, but most of the time I can get it right on my own. Experience is a great teacher, and negative film is pretty forgiving. Very often I shoot first, then check with my meter just to confirm I exposed correctly.
When I was in school and in my early days assisting, we joked about "smelling the light". We'd play a game where we would carry our meters and try to guess the readings for a given ISO, then check to see how close we were. You'd be surprised how quickly you develop a sense for this - especially if you tend to stick to one speed. Most photographers who start to do this wonder why they waited so long, and you probably won't want to go back to being crazy about carefully TTL metering each shot. Have fun!
When I was in school and in my early days assisting, we joked about "smelling the light". We'd play a game where we would carry our meters and try to guess the readings for a given ISO, then check to see how close we were. You'd be surprised how quickly you develop a sense for this - especially if you tend to stick to one speed. Most photographers who start to do this wonder why they waited so long, and you probably won't want to go back to being crazy about carefully TTL metering each shot. Have fun!
rfaspen
[insert pithy phrase here]
^^^
I think this is how most of us operate. At least this is what I do.
I kind of like the little game of guessing exposure and then checking how close I got. Its a fantastic way to train your "inner meter" and reinforce it -- making permanent neural pathways in your brain.
Ambro51
Collector/Photographer
I have a book with a chapter written by Ansel Adams with pages on how to interpret and religiously use the Weston meter.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ But I guess that’s what made him “Ansel Adams” and we're just schmucks with a camera. ;-)
Mjd-djm
Established
I never regret using a meter, but I sometimes regret not using one.