Good 120 for beginner?

[oftheherd]

How about a Mamiya Super 23? I am a big William Eggleston fan...

Super Press 23 cameras are indeed quite good. You can do a search of the forums for comments by me or some of the others who own one. Their advantage over the Universal is bellows back. Their disadvantage to the Universal is no polaroid back and no back for Mamiya 67. Be careful not to get the Graflok back unless that is exactly what you want. It will almost always be sold that way as some prefer that. I would stick with their normal 6x7 back. With those backs, if you do run across some 220 film, they will use it too.

I think a built in meter is not a great advantage with MF. I once had a Yashica 124 MAT G and really enjoyed using the meter most of the time. However, I sure haven't missed it with the Super Press 23, nor with any of the MF folders I have. YMMV.

 

[Way]

6x4.5 would probably be the most inexpensive and there are some great Fuji 645 cameras from simple to all the bells and whistles. Check out keh.com for a lot of those cameras. Their "bargain" grade items are pretty good. That would keep you in the $400 or so price range. I had a Fuji 645 folder that was great for backpacking but make sure you get it checked out as they are prone to leaky bellows and shutter linkage problems. Once serviced it's a great, portable MF camera. I unfortunateley sold it but I really want to get another one!

 

[Way]

How about the Mamiya 330f in the classifieds? Kind of a monster but I hear it's a great camera.

 

[Windscale]

Way,

It's nice to see an expert in violins and bows in these forums.

I share your interests as well.


Mabelsound,

Back to the main point of the thread. I think to really get in to 120 one should retain total control of the camera rather than using aperture priority to let the camera works things out. Investing in a handheld meter with incident and reflected readings is almost mandatory. A good folder or TLR (such as the Yashica) would be a good starter. In the case of a TLR the waiste level finder will take a bit of time to get used to. Generally, you will do a lot more thinking before you pressed the shutter as you only get 12 shots in a 6x6. But I can say for sure that the pics will come out very mice if you have got things right because of the shear bigger size of the negs. If you go for a folder, make sure the bellow is not leaking. Good luck.

 

[KoNickon]

If you're "sticking a toe in the water" I'd stay away from too much interchangeability, actually. Things like swapping out lenses and backs get complicated (is the dark slide in? did I make sure the shutter is cocked? etc.), and add to the cost. That's why I would stick with a TLR or a folder to start -- those will more likely be square format (6x6), and many offer superb lenses. The TLR suggestions already given are good ones. As for folders, I hear good things about the Iskras, and the Agfa Isolettes, especially the ones with rangefinders, like the Isolette III. More things to go wrong with folders, though -- holes in the bellows, lenses not parallel to the film -- so a visit to certo6.com will give you some good pointers. Get a good handheld meter with reflected and incident reading capability and you're in business.

 

[HuubL]

I agree on the Rolleicord. They can be had relatively cheap (200 US$) and the lens is superb.

 

[aizan]

i would avoid rolleicords that have the focus knob on the left side.

 

[squirrel$$$bandit]

I'm leaning toward the TLR at the moment. One of the first things that got me excited about photography as a "serious" hobby was the sight of Diane Arbus with her Rollei...I'll keep waiting for the right Rolleicord or Yashica Mat.

 

[oldgearhead]

Here is my opinion:
1) TLRs - Left is right and right is left, and my all time favorite was the Grey Baby Rolli in 127!
2) Century - You have to remember too much stuff, but ground glass is nice.
3) Mamiya Universal - Same problems as Graflex, too much to remember.
4) Koni-Omega - Much easier to use than the 23 or the Graflex, but quite heavy.
Let's see, advance the film, cock the shutter, and ..did I remember to take off the lens cap?
At least the KO cocks the shutter when the film advances.

 

[oftheherd]

Here is my opinion:
1) TLRs - Left is right and right is left, and my all time favorite was the Grey Baby Rolli in 127!
2) Century - You have to remember too much stuff, but ground glass is nice.
3) Mamiya Universal - Same problems as Graflex, too much to remember.
4) Koni-Omega - Much easier to use than the 23 or the Graflex, but quite heavy.
Let's see, advance the film, cock the shutter, and ..did I remember to take off the lens cap?
At least the KO cocks the shutter when the film advances.

I think once you get used to a camera, that is, if you use it fairly regularly, those steps become automatic. My vote still goes for the Mamiya Super Press 23. But that is just me. OP should go for what he likes so he will be more likely to use it. The Yashica 124 MAT G was a very satisfying camera to use for me, but having had the 23, I prefer it. As I have said, to me it is surprisingly 35mm like in handling, and is a systme camera. Again, that is just me. I never had a oni-Omega. I am sure they were good. Graflex cameras might be a little harder to get lenses and backs for, or not. I don't know and hopefully someone else can comment on that.

 

[squirrel$$$bandit]

Well, I ended up finding a Yashica Mat 124G for $125, fully tested, light seals and mirror bumper replaced. It should be here in the next few days. It might take me a bit of time to work with it though, since my Robot Star is unexpectedly coming back from CLA extremely early. In any event, it'll be a fun week for me. Thanks for all your recommendations!

 

[oftheherd]

Sounds like a worth while buy. Assuming that, I think you will love using that camera. I know I did, and frankly, sometimes I wish I still had one. Mostly for nostalgia I guess.

Enjoy!

 

[literiter]

and mirror bumper replaced.

This must be a slightly different version of the 124G that I had. 😀

 

[tripod]

There ain't no mirror bumpers in a TLR.

 

[Eric T]

I would stay away from TLRs. Just too complex to shoot.
I have two MFs now: Kiev 60 and Mamiya 645. I like them both. But I am going to get a folder because they are just too heavy to carry around - especially with multiple lenses. The idea of a folder in my pocket appeals to me.
I like the modern Fujis such as the GA645Zi but it has a very slow lens and I am concerned about the long term reliability of such a complex camera. Again, I like folders because of their low complexity - no electronics at all!
Eric

 

[tripod]

Erik, the TLR has already been bought and is in the mail.

About folders, the Zeiss Nettar is a well built line, and not nearly as heavy as the Zeiss Ikontas.

 

[squirrel$$$bandit]

There ain't no mirror bumpers in a TLR.

oh geez....I'm in trouble then :lol:

He probably just copied over the text from another camera he serviced...

 

[literiter]

I would stay away from TLRs. Just too complex to shoot.

They are a little complex aren't they? I have two old Rolleiflex TLRs and I did find them somewhat confusing to use at the beginning. They don't quite have the ergonomics of say, my old F2. But now I love the things and the Yashica isn't a lot different.

Again, I like folders because of their low complexity - no electronics at all!
Eric

Folders are fantastic. Aside from the occasional folder having a built in un-coupled light meter, no electronics. For me though, I do find them more complex than the TLRs.

Folder: Open carefully, wind the film, clip on the lens hood (if you can) cock the shutter, focus, shoot.

TLR: Wind film (shutter cocks at the same time) focus. shoot.

My opinion, for what it's worth: get both.

 

[Pherdinand]

"TLR: wind film, focus, shoot."
Sorry - where is this more complex than your "old F2"??

TLR's are extremely easy to shoot. Beats any modern film or digital camera, unless you use that in full auto point and shoot mode. The ONLY thing that is a bit more complex, is the film change. But that gets easy too, with experience.

 

[oftheherd]

This must be a slightly different version of the 124G that I had. 😀

Yeah, I noted that too but didn't want to say anything. Even my Perfekta doesn't have a bumper. 😀