pesphoto
Veteran
no...not silly at all. Post some pics when you can.
Good beginner rf
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agentsim
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Ash
Selflessly Self-involved
The under/over exposure thing gets confusing when you start using it more comprehensively.
Basically you have ISO, that's what a film comes packaged as. But usually it can be developed as a lot faster or a lot slower. That becomes your Exposure Index. EI.
When you 'overexpose' a film and rate it 2 stops slower than the ISO on the packet, then a ISO400 film has an EI of 100. Of course, you have it correctly exposed if you compensate for the change in exposure when you develop it.
If you aren't developing the film yourself you REALLY don't want to get too tangled up in that. It's easy to work out when you have black and white film and develop it yourself. Basically in your case you have an underexposed film, because there isn't enough light, say, it's a stop slower, then you can simply double development time and it will hopefully be close to correct exposure. It's very experimental - it depends on film, developer, temperature, etc.
over exposure means adding more light than intended
under exposure means having less light
Basically you have ISO, that's what a film comes packaged as. But usually it can be developed as a lot faster or a lot slower. That becomes your Exposure Index. EI.
When you 'overexpose' a film and rate it 2 stops slower than the ISO on the packet, then a ISO400 film has an EI of 100. Of course, you have it correctly exposed if you compensate for the change in exposure when you develop it.
If you aren't developing the film yourself you REALLY don't want to get too tangled up in that. It's easy to work out when you have black and white film and develop it yourself. Basically in your case you have an underexposed film, because there isn't enough light, say, it's a stop slower, then you can simply double development time and it will hopefully be close to correct exposure. It's very experimental - it depends on film, developer, temperature, etc.
over exposure means adding more light than intended
under exposure means having less light
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IMHO, the value of getting a new body is severely UNDER RATED!! Especially if this is your first trip into RF-land (aka the dark side). While learning to use a handheld meter is a good thing, built-in meters rock. The R is a great place to start, I’ve started my son there and he seems to be doing OK.
Lens-wise there’s a lot of good ideas above. I would strongly recommend you look at either a 35mm or a 25mm. If you go with a 35 (or above) get an R. They are a great camera to start with. I know it messes with your budget, but the 25/4 is IMHO, a world class lens. I used to think it was too slow, but the size and quality make up for it. As you do not need an RF for the 25, you can look for a good used Bessa L. The L has no range finder, but a built in meter and together with my 25/4 is my carry everywhere kit. You can get the lens new (in silver) and find an L used and be around $300!
You have to guess focus with the 25, but it’s easy to do and you have so much DOF that I’ve only had a problem with it twice in over three years of having this kit as my everyday camera.
B2 (;->
Lens-wise there’s a lot of good ideas above. I would strongly recommend you look at either a 35mm or a 25mm. If you go with a 35 (or above) get an R. They are a great camera to start with. I know it messes with your budget, but the 25/4 is IMHO, a world class lens. I used to think it was too slow, but the size and quality make up for it. As you do not need an RF for the 25, you can look for a good used Bessa L. The L has no range finder, but a built in meter and together with my 25/4 is my carry everywhere kit. You can get the lens new (in silver) and find an L used and be around $300!
You have to guess focus with the 25, but it’s easy to do and you have so much DOF that I’ve only had a problem with it twice in over three years of having this kit as my everyday camera.
B2 (;->
Trius
Waiting on Maitani
agentsim said:
I know you said you wanted interchangeable lenses, but if you're not sure if RF is "right" for you, why not get a good quality fixed lens RF to start with? You'll spend around $100. With your budget of $300, you'll be hard pressed to get a good, reliable interchangeable lens RF and 2 good lenses. With two lenses you may (depends on your personality/habits) spend as much time changing lenses or second-guessing which lens to use as you spend on actually seeing and shooting. When approaching a new tool, it's a very good idea (IMO) to eliminate all but one variable ... two at the most. In my thinking, that would translate to RF shooting and choice of film.
So, think one of the better Canonets, Konica, Minolta or Olympus RFs. If you decide RF isn't for you, selling your camera with little or no loss will be pretty easy.
I'm becoming more enamoured of ISO 100-ish films. I'm going to buy up what APX100 I can. With the ability to handhold RFs at slower speeds, I think EI 100 makes a lot of sense. At least it does when I see the entirely different look one can get from these films.pesphoto said:
Earl
pesphoto
Veteran
good points..... I started with a Yashica GSN and got hooked right away.
Trius
Waiting on Maitani
Yeah, and it's always good to have a backup. When I take out a fixed-lens RF, I have far fewer decisions to make. I find that when I go out with an OM, I have to FORCE myself to take only one lens. Even when I do it (take only a 50 or a 28, say) ... while I'm out there it takes me awhile to stop thinking "Oh, there's a shot that would really be great if only I'd brought the XXX ..."
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One lens is fun, but with the size of CV RF lenses, a second takes up almost no space at all. Perhaps a 25/4 and 75/2.5 solution on an R, very portable. One an OM, perhaps an 85/2 and a 28/2.8?
I started serious learning with an old Minolta IIIM, worked fine for about a year, then I went over to the darker side (SLRdom). I wish I had gone with Nikon RFs back then. Starting with an Konica S2 is not a bad idea, the only head ache is getting a great working one (I'd look here, not on EvilBay for that).
I still think the L and a 25 is a great place to start learning.
B2 (;->
I started serious learning with an old Minolta IIIM, worked fine for about a year, then I went over to the darker side (SLRdom). I wish I had gone with Nikon RFs back then. Starting with an Konica S2 is not a bad idea, the only head ache is getting a great working one (I'd look here, not on EvilBay for that).
I still think the L and a 25 is a great place to start learning.
B2 (;->
MadMan2k
Well-known
I don't like fast film, at least in color. 400 B&W is pretty good, even pushed a stop or two, but I have to stop down so much and shoot at 1/1000th all the time which I don't like.
100 slide film or even 64 (kodachrome) seems to work out well. I can shoot close to wide open, even in low light because rangefinders are so good with slow speeds and handholding.
ISO 25 is best used with a tripod, but I shot one roll handheld in average overcast light and it wasn't too bad.
100 slide film or even 64 (kodachrome) seems to work out well. I can shoot close to wide open, even in low light because rangefinders are so good with slow speeds and handholding.
ISO 25 is best used with a tripod, but I shot one roll handheld in average overcast light and it wasn't too bad.
agentsim
Member
I looked at the other Bessas. The L and T are interesting (the T more so IMHO), but I have found Rs on the 'Bay for the same sort of price as Ls and Ts...
I'm thinking I'll pick up a Jupiter-8 and maybe a Jupiter-12 if I get the R. I'll also ask around some local second hand camera stores and see what they might have.
I'm thinking I'll pick up a Jupiter-8 and maybe a Jupiter-12 if I get the R. I'll also ask around some local second hand camera stores and see what they might have.
brachal
Refrigerated User
agentsim said:
Don't get a Jupiter-12 -- it's not compatible with the Bessa R. It's got an enormous rear element that will definitely block the meter and is virtually certain to hit the R's shutter as well. It's a shame, because the 12 is a great lens for the money, but putting one on a Bessa is asking for trouble.
I think the Bessa R is the camera you're looking for. I love mine. The Soviet rangefinders are great fun, and I'm a big fan, but they aren't very reliable. Let's face it, the newest one you can get is already 15+ years old. The lenses are outstanding, however. The Jupiter-8 on Bessa-R performs very well, and it's an exceptional value. I've used the Voigtlander Skopars (35mm f/2.5 and 28mm f/3.5) and recommend both with no reservations.
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Trius
Waiting on Maitani
BB2: It's not the size issue at all. It's the psychology of one lens verus multiple when you are learning a new camera.
28 & 85 with an OM? Outstanding kit! Another good kit would be the 40 and 100.
28 & 85 with an OM? Outstanding kit! Another good kit would be the 40 and 100.
