Trius
Waiting on Maitani
Ah, well yes, having the shutter speed dial in the RIGHT place, a la the OMs, would be a bonus.
Edit: Gene, that's a wonderful idea. I think we are the most creative people on earth when it comes to "reasons" we need to pump eggs, bacon etc. into our bloodstreams.
Should be sometime in March, I'll email directly. I'm also going to start a "Spring GTA/RFF gathering" thread later today.
Edit: Gene, that's a wonderful idea. I think we are the most creative people on earth when it comes to "reasons" we need to pump eggs, bacon etc. into our bloodstreams.
Should be sometime in March, I'll email directly. I'm also going to start a "Spring GTA/RFF gathering" thread later today.
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Chris101
summicronia
P
PhotoJim
Guest
ChrisPlatt said:
I thought it was odd, too, until I used a Nikkormat.
The placement of the shutter speed dial around the lens mount makes it easier to use a Nikkormat for handheld photography, strangely. Try one.
It does, however, make tripod-based photography more difficult.
Sonnar2
Well-known
The Nikkormat EL has it on the right place, plus AE and open aperture metering with NonAI and AI lenses.
But I prefer the Spotmatic-F and the last series of SMC Takumars for size and weight.
But I prefer the Spotmatic-F and the last series of SMC Takumars for size and weight.
Brad Bireley
Well-known
I just picked up a Chinon CM-1 & what a sweet camera body for m-42 lenses! It has split image focusing a good meter & a very solid feel!
raid
Dad Photographer
Sonnar2 said:
Me too.
I have the nice set:
35mm/2.0 SMC, 50mm/1.4 SMC, 85mm/1.8 SMC, 135mm/3.5 SMC.
The Spotmatic F is a really nice camera for actual use.
Sonnar2
Well-known
Did you try the Electro Spotmatic out, Raid?
The screwmount SMC 85/1.8 is a treasure, both mechanically and optically. I've sold my SMC-K 85/1.8 of the same formula, but kept my vintage Auto-Takumar of the same focal length and speed, which is a bit smaller and more rangefinder-like (less contrast wide open)
But the contemporary Nikkor-H 85/1.8 is also a lens with character.
The screwmount SMC 85/1.8 is a treasure, both mechanically and optically. I've sold my SMC-K 85/1.8 of the same formula, but kept my vintage Auto-Takumar of the same focal length and speed, which is a bit smaller and more rangefinder-like (less contrast wide open)
But the contemporary Nikkor-H 85/1.8 is also a lens with character.
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my favorite M42 body is a Canon T90 with the Canon M42 adapter. manual operation on the lenses, but the T90 is one of the best designed and most versatile cameras 35mm ever with WONDERFUL metering and flash systems. The only thing I don't like about it is the Canon name, but black tape takes care of that.
Stephen
Stephen
raid
Dad Photographer
Sonnar2 said:
Hello Frank,
No, I have never tried the Eelectro Spotmatic. Is it a rare camera? I started using the 85mm/1.8 as my fast portrait lens for my Canon FD system. Only recently have I rediscovered the Pentax cameras.
raid
Dad Photographer
CameraQuest said:
Stephen,
I agree with you on the T90. It is maybe my alltime favorite SLR camera. I have not used Pentax lenses with the T90, but in the past, I used them with the Canon A1.
Kim Coxon
Moderator
Hi Raid,
The Electro Spotmatic is one of the more "uncommon" Pentaxs. It was the foreruner to the Spotmatic ES and only produced in small numbers. What is rare is finding one that works in the "auto" mode. In common with the very early ES's, the design of the circuit board was very prone to failure. This was revised quite quickly so most of the ES's have the revised design and are the ones that still work.
Kim
The Electro Spotmatic is one of the more "uncommon" Pentaxs. It was the foreruner to the Spotmatic ES and only produced in small numbers. What is rare is finding one that works in the "auto" mode. In common with the very early ES's, the design of the circuit board was very prone to failure. This was revised quite quickly so most of the ES's have the revised design and are the ones that still work.
Kim
raid said:
Sonnar2
Well-known
Hi Raid, the ES/ ESII aren't rare to find but most offered today seem to be not working well anymore (different to the Spotmatic types), I haven't one but I'm interested on other's oppinions. Most are black bodies. The electronics is in the bottom so they are a bit higher and more heavy than the Spotmatic (but not as heavy as the Nikkormat cameras). My impression is that the Pentax ES/ESII hasn't proved as reliable as the Nikkormat EL or Canon EF. Also an advantage of the Nikkormat EL is that it takes PX625 batteries. That's also better on the Spotmatic F compared to the uncommon small cell of the Spotmatic.
I have lots of Pentax screw mount lenses but just about eight Nikon lenses, all Non-AI. For usage with film they are better value for the money than SMC screwmount Takumars. Only one of my Nikon lenses is somewhat special, a Nikkor-H 180/2.5, just the lens head, can be used on bellows, focussing part is missing (a lens from the Nikon RF era).
have fun,
I have lots of Pentax screw mount lenses but just about eight Nikon lenses, all Non-AI. For usage with film they are better value for the money than SMC screwmount Takumars. Only one of my Nikon lenses is somewhat special, a Nikkor-H 180/2.5, just the lens head, can be used on bellows, focussing part is missing (a lens from the Nikon RF era).
have fun,
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
Earl,
A cheap Chinon CM-3 will give you metal shutter, a slightly rarer CE-3 will give you AE, and so far can handle any M42 lenses I throw at it including the Biotar 58/2 (from which your Helios is based on).
The Biotar for example will catch the mirror of the Spotmatic.
You've probably seen this before, my M42 kit:
It'll be hard to find another M42 body with performance/price ratio such as this one.
Another way is to pick up an E-series DLSR and get an M42 to 4/3rd adapter sweeet!
A cheap Chinon CM-3 will give you metal shutter, a slightly rarer CE-3 will give you AE, and so far can handle any M42 lenses I throw at it including the Biotar 58/2 (from which your Helios is based on).
The Biotar for example will catch the mirror of the Spotmatic.
You've probably seen this before, my M42 kit:
It'll be hard to find another M42 body with performance/price ratio such as this one.
Another way is to pick up an E-series DLSR and get an M42 to 4/3rd adapter
sweeet!KoNickon
Nick Merritt
I have the ES and ESII both. The ES has been a real joy to use; the ESII is now, but Eric Hendricksen had to put in a fair amount of work to make it right. Both are really nice handling cameras and look sharp in black (the only way they came, I think).
The Spotmatic F is a real nice camera, if you like manual metering. (The ES/ESII only meter in Auto mode.)
But I have to put in a plug for the Nikkormat EL, one of my favorite cameras. Just a top quality camera, and very reliable in my experience. The Nikon EL2 is the same camera, but with the AI lens mount. It takes the PX28 battery (not the 625) -- easily found in stores, though it takes a bit of doing to figure out where it goes in the camera! (In the bottom of the mirror box.)
In my experience, Nikon bodies just seem to be more reliable and smoother working over the years than any other brand. The meters seem to hold their accuracy well, and things like the film wind mechanism are still wonderfully smooth. The Pentaxes of the same vintage, for instance, nice though they are, show their age more -- the wind lever, for example, usually feels rougher in use.
The Spotmatic F is a real nice camera, if you like manual metering. (The ES/ESII only meter in Auto mode.)
But I have to put in a plug for the Nikkormat EL, one of my favorite cameras. Just a top quality camera, and very reliable in my experience. The Nikon EL2 is the same camera, but with the AI lens mount. It takes the PX28 battery (not the 625) -- easily found in stores, though it takes a bit of doing to figure out where it goes in the camera! (In the bottom of the mirror box.)
In my experience, Nikon bodies just seem to be more reliable and smoother working over the years than any other brand. The meters seem to hold their accuracy well, and things like the film wind mechanism are still wonderfully smooth. The Pentaxes of the same vintage, for instance, nice though they are, show their age more -- the wind lever, for example, usually feels rougher in use.
Kim Coxon
Moderator
The ESII is perhaps the better of the 2. They do have 2 downsides. The metering only works in the auto mode. The manual speeds are also somewhat limited. The shutter is an electro controlledc mechanical one so the shutter itself is about as reliable as the Sots and can suffer the same capping problem as any other mechanical shutter of the time. As I said earlier the earlier ES's did suffer from unreliable circuit boards and these have given the camera a poor reputation. The later ES's and ESII's are much better. However in common with many others with a similar design, if the shutter release magnets go out of line, it can cause problems in Auto mode. It is not a complicated job to sort but is quite time consuming as they are well buried.
The ESII also handles better IMHO without the battery stuck on the front a la ES. In a reverse of the usual Pentax practice, the normal ones were black but you can find chrome versions of both. These are more difficult to find than the black versions of the Spots.
Kim
Kim
The ESII also handles better IMHO without the battery stuck on the front a la ES. In a reverse of the usual Pentax practice, the normal ones were black but you can find chrome versions of both. These are more difficult to find than the black versions of the Spots.
Kim
Kim
Sonnar2 said:
Athos6
Tao Master
Why get a Nikkormat?
Why get a Nikkormat?
When you can get an F3 for about 70 bucks more with a little shopping. I got my Ftn for about 75 bucks, it was in great shape. Lust about a week ago I got a perfectly funtional and super looking F3 off of the bay for 150 + shipping. The batteries are easier to find, than the Nikkormat, shutter speed dial is in the right place, Non-ai and ai lenses, no need to do the sweep back and forth to index the lens that you need to do on the Nikkormat. They weigh roughly the same. Just a thought.
Why get a Nikkormat?
When you can get an F3 for about 70 bucks more with a little shopping. I got my Ftn for about 75 bucks, it was in great shape. Lust about a week ago I got a perfectly funtional and super looking F3 off of the bay for 150 + shipping. The batteries are easier to find, than the Nikkormat, shutter speed dial is in the right place, Non-ai and ai lenses, no need to do the sweep back and forth to index the lens that you need to do on the Nikkormat. They weigh roughly the same. Just a thought.
Trius
Waiting on Maitani
Wow, what a lot of good information. I had forgotten about the Chinons, though I did some casual ePay searching a couple of months ago when you mentioned them, Will.
Athos, as far as the F3 goes, that's a good idea, but as an OM uses the Nikkormats have the shutter speed dial in the "right" place for me. As far as indexing on the 'mat goes, I probably wouldn't change lenses often enough for it to be a bother. The older I get, the more I stick a lens on and leave it for long periods of time.
Yesterday I thought a good reason to get the Nikkormat was the availability of ZF lenses, should I ever get so involved that I'd $pring for any. But of course, Zeiss is making M42 mount now, too, so there goes that logic ...
As for the T90, I've paid attention to the good things said about them, but I have the same sort of feeling about the name, and I'd rather not fool with the black tape. Seriously, though, the electronics in those things, as solid as it might be, scares me a bit. I don't really require the fancier metering and flash. I have OM-2n for more serious flash modes, though I don't use flash much.
Athos, as far as the F3 goes, that's a good idea, but as an OM uses the Nikkormats have the shutter speed dial in the "right" place for me.
As far as indexing on the 'mat goes, I probably wouldn't change lenses often enough for it to be a bother. The older I get, the more I stick a lens on and leave it for long periods of time.Yesterday I thought a good reason to get the Nikkormat was the availability of ZF lenses, should I ever get so involved that I'd $pring for any. But of course, Zeiss is making M42 mount now, too, so there goes that logic ...
As for the T90, I've paid attention to the good things said about them, but I have the same sort of feeling about the name, and I'd rather not fool with the black tape. Seriously, though, the electronics in those things, as solid as it might be, scares me a bit. I don't really require the fancier metering and flash. I have OM-2n for more serious flash modes, though I don't use flash much.
Sonnar2
Well-known
Trius said:
Note that there is no common standard for open aperture metering with M42 mount. Every camera maker made it in a slightly different way. Did Zeiss use the Pentax standard, or any else?
The elegance of the old Nikkormat series is in open aperture metering for virtually *every* NIKON lens, as long as it has the indexing prong sitting on the aperture ring.
I've bought two Nikkormat EL's last year, black and chrome, both great working. Each was 40 EUR. I've *never* bought so much camara for so little money. In terms of functionality as in terms of weight. The Nikkormat FTN looks more elegant and therefore costs a little bit more (but misses the AE and has the odd speed dial around the lens)
have fun, Frank
P
PhotoJim
Guest
Athos6 said:
The Nikkormat FT2 and FT3 use MS76 silver oxide batteries - well, a single one. These are easy to find. (The F3 takes a pair of them.)
I otherwise agree though. The F3 and F3HP are nice cameras.
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
Sonnar2 said:
But you only need one M42 body, therefore you don't need a "standard"
you just need to pick a good one.Here's an excerpt from Wikipedia that explains partly why I go with the Chinon:
"Chinon used a different system to provide aperture priority mode with standard Auto-M42 lenses with the CE Memotron (1974), CE-II Memotron and CE-3 Memotron bodies. A similar system was used in the Cosina Hi-Lite EC.
The image would be framed and focussed normally with the lens wide open. As the shutter button was depressed the lens would be stopped down to the selected aperture, a quick stop-down meter reading taken, and the shutter fired for correct exposure.
Chinon used a then-modern Silicon (Si) metering cell. Its quick reaction time compared to the then-standard CdS cells made it usable for this application.
While this method did not offer the same sensitivity advantage of true open-aperture metering, its versatility was much better, as it did not depend on proprietary lenses. Both, Cosina and Chinon, sold their cameras to various other companies for rebranding, which increased the number of almost identical cameras considerably."