Good time to buy an R-D1?

[Bobfrance]

Hi Gang!

During moments of GAS I keep returning to the idea of aquiring an R-D1.
I like the look and spec of the camera and it would give me the opportunity to start collecting some M-mount glass (always handy I reckon).

My question is.
Now the R-D1 has been ceased production, and with no immediate successor, what does the RFF collective estimate will happen to R-D1 prices?

Will they hold firm?
It is a rare beast afer all. Or will its rarity (obscurity?) work against it?

All points of view gratefully received.

Bob.

 

[kshapero]

I think it is still viable.

 

[Tuolumne]

From the few prices I have seen posted recently, it looks like prices are trending up. If so, you may never get it cheaper than now. But who knows...a few anecdotal data points do not a trend make.

/T

 

[Bobfrance]

Good points.
I kinda feel the prices are firming up. That is, unless a replacement appears.
I do worry that being a digital camera, ultimately it may become next to worthless like all digitals.
I don't want to get caught out - but then again at least I'd have the lenses - they'l always hold some value.

 

[Vickko]

My thoughts:
- the M8 caused more people to turn to the RD1
- the M8 and RD1 caused an increase in prices for used M glass of 50mm and wider
- neither the M8 nor RD1 will become collectable due to their inherent lack of reliability and lack of longevity
- the prices of M glass will remain high as users return to film
- there will be a slight increase in the price of RD1 followed by a steady decline as the market loses interest
- RD1 will also begin to fail, causing a more rapid decline in price.

If you have an RD1, use it while you can
If you want to sell an RD1, now is likely its highest value

....Vick

 

[Tuolumne]

Vicko,
Good points all. However, time will tell on the ultimate reliability of the R-D1. Most of the complaints had to do with rangefinder alignment, a mechanical issue. Some electronic devices can take a lickin' and keep on tickin'. I use my R-D1 heavily, and so far, not a single problem (except of course for that rangefinder! 🙂)

/T

 

[Bobfrance]

...RD1 will also begin to fail, causing a more rapid decline in price...
....Vick

This is something that has crossed my mind. Although not so much the spectre of failiure (I acknowledge that digital cameras are reliable when treated carefully) but weather there will be anyone who can fix it if it does go wrong.

 

[eric.schmiedl]

Well put. It's a seller's market out there, right now. The announcement that the R-D1 was being discontinued was posted all over the web and has brought in a lot of "knee jerk" interest. (I get the feeling that a lot of the buyers are going after it just because of the announcement.) Once that market irrationality fades, prices will start going down -- probably a fast drop to the pre-announcement price followed by a slow decline. It's a digital camera that's well over three years old... the Nikon D70 was released before the R-D1, has a better sensor and the same resolution, and currently goes for $350.

My thoughts:
- the M8 caused more people to turn to the RD1
- the M8 and RD1 caused an increase in prices for used M glass of 50mm and wider
- neither the M8 nor RD1 will become collectable due to their inherent lack of reliability and lack of longevity
- the prices of M glass will remain high as users return to film
- there will be a slight increase in the price of RD1 followed by a steady decline as the market loses interest
- RD1 will also begin to fail, causing a more rapid decline in price.

If you have an RD1, use it while you can
If you want to sell an RD1, now is likely its highest value

....Vick

 

[RichC]

Repairing the R-D1

Repairing the R-D1

As far as repair goes, the R-D1 is unique in that it shares components with other cameras, notably mechanical bits with the film Bessas, which will be around for many years. Also, being more mechanical than a typical digital camera, camera technicians seem more willing to attempt to fix cameras with problems (e.g. stuck shutters).

Electronically, the R-D1 seems very reliable, and electronics tend to fail early in their life rather than later (how many of us are still using stereos or TVs that are decades old?). Again, parts are shared with other models, so you might be able to substitute a Sony LCD or a Nikon sensor if the R-D1 ones fail.

Lastly, Epson have alwys been pretty good at carrying spares for out-of-production products, and have stated that they will service the R-D1 for the next 6 years; you can buy spare parts from Epson agents. (Finding someone at Epson who's even heard of the camera is a different kettle of fish, though!)

There's more info on R-D1 FAQ website for those interested...

 

[jaapv]

It is a bit of a balance. A number of RD1 owners are buying M8's now, especially as that camera seems to have settled down after the initial teething troubles. On the other hand, some seem to be hanging on to the Epson as a second body.Others have been drawn to the concept op digital rangefinder photography by the whole M8 hullabuloo and are testing the water with an RD1. On the whole, I expect prices to remain stable until ZI introduce their digital RF in a number of years time.
But- it is not the stock market we are discussing here.
If you feel digital RF photography is for you the time to get a camera is yesterday. The price will be forgotten and irrelevant by the time you take that shot you have been yearning for for years.

 

[Joe Mondello]

the Nikon D70 was released before the R-D1, has a better sensor and the same resolution, and currently goes for $350.

Yes but . . . the reason is that Nikon and others in the dSLR segment have released newer better faster cheaper competition for the D70. The R-D1 and the M8 occupy the dRF space unchallenged by competition that would otherwise drive prices down (faster).

I asked the same question about a week ago in this thread . . .

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42663

IF M8 prices go UP as rumored, R-D1 will certainly NOT go down any time soon -- especially with Epson publicly stating they will service the cameras until 2013. JMO of course!

 

[JBFreeheel]

I agree with Joe M and Rich C. Joe, good point too. Until other companies come out with better, faster, CHEAPER, versions of digital arangefinders, I think the R-D1's will hold in the $1400-$1700 range (in the US, slightly higher elsewhere). Since, there doesn't seem to be much action with competition, the only step I see is possibly Leica coming out with the M8s or M9 which will drive the M8 prices down and therefore drive the R-D1 prices down. Granted, if Leica continues with their trends, they will change the M* successor in ways so that M8s still command a high price, which ultimately would be good for Epson R-D1 users.

In the end, I think the prices will level over the next 6-9 months in the $1500 range.

I feel lucky in that regard. I bought my second R-D1 (refurb) from Epson Store the last time they were available. It's been sitting in its case, high and dry while my primary R-D1 gets the use. Here's to hoping the market stays level, as I might want to sell my refurb soon.

-Josh

 

[GrahamWelland]

My thoughts:

...
- the prices of M glass will remain high as users return to film

....Vick

err, WHAT? Someone's smoking crack methinks ... or playing at being King Cnut (Canute) :angel:

I do think that M glass will continue to be expensive but for a completely different reason - Leica lack the capacity and resources to satisfy the market of Leicaphiles who are happy to pay the premium prices demanded. (I'm as guilty as anyone).

 

[RML]

If you have an RD1, use it while you can
If you want to sell an RD1, now is likely its highest value

I'd add

If you want to use it, get it now.

It's like with anything. Something newer, brighter, better is always juuuust around the corner. But what if you can't/ won't wait to come to that corner? Just get it the R-D1 and use it. Mine was more expensive when I bought it 2 years ago than they are today. It has no meaning anymore.

 

[georgef]

I am sure there were discussions like that in the days of the Leica M VS nikon N or F in terms of what you get for the same cash from Leica and the SLR companies.😀

I think overall, RFers and especially Leica afficionados have a very strong monetary bond to their equipment; by that I mean they see them as a product with lasting value, some of which may become collectible.
Comparing an RD-1 to, say a D200 or a 5D is not quite sensical, given both product type and markets they target. I know most of my friends and colleagues were only too thrilled to hear CANON came up with a full frame DSLR of a non-1D series origin, even though new they were going for over 4K each here in canada at the time; many of them lined up for it, just like they are now doing for the 1DmkIII!
The point is that DSLRers (like me in my pre-RD-1 life 😀 ) expected to roll their bodies (I am discussing cameras here LOL) every three to four years or so given new technologies while keeping their glass.
In the RF world, however, there is an expectancy to keep both bodies and lenses for a long time, mainly due to the longevity of the film rf's. What makes this segment interesting is, that there is neither the same competition, nor the same abundancy of different manufacturers; there is the RD-1, and there is the M8...thats it! ...for now. Along those lines, what do you pay to use one of the two top cameras in their filed in the DLSR world? 5K to 7K....comparatively its a good deal I think.

I also think value retention in the DRF world will from now on be different than it has ever been in the RF world.

ClickWindClickSmile.george

this is just MHO, but

 

[eric.schmiedl]

Here's a graph of the closing prices of recent eBay auctions of R-D1 cameras (only those auctions that resulted in a sale). The price appears to have dropped ~$300 in the last week or two.