Got another Kiev 4

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moretto

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A while ago I complained about Kiev disagreeing with me (or I with it)...today a friend's father gave me another one, knowing I'm a freak for old cameras. "Never had a film inside", he said..and "i know you like them..and we always used IDIOTS (that's our name for p&s), don't know why we even bought this one". Do I need another one ? No. Could I politely refuse? Yes. So did I refuse? Of course not.
So he presented me with a Kiev 4, serial 60****, J8 lens, exactly the same I have, only my is serial 71*** . What's the deal with this serials anyway, Is the first 2 digits the year of production?
OK, I really can't say if the film was ever in this camera..but the years of sitting in the closet covered the lens with fungus , and the interior with white moisture-"penicillin" fuzz marks. Surprisingly, everything works except the 1/2 and B on the shooter.
I cleaned the lens, disassembled the body and cleaned everything...Only my Yak is out of his fur, 😀 so I have to buy some synthetic gummy-sponge seals tomorrow.
Any suggestions for a lubricant? What do You usually use? I have used some fine oil for sewing machines, but I'm not very satisfied with it's performance...
 
Hi!
Nice gift!
Ok, please never use sewing machine oil in a camera (even the finest you can find). Instead look for something like WD40 that comes in a spray can, and use it very sparingly (do not spray inside the camera, please). I usually spray some amount of oil in a small bottle and leave it until there is no gas in the oil, then I use it.
If your yak doesn´t have any wool, use plain black sheep wool, it works fine.
60xxxxxx means made during 1960. Some zeros before any significant figure means made within the first months of the year.
By the way, how did you clean the fungus in the lens?

Hope this is of help!

Best regards

Ernesto
 
Thanks for the tip. That's million and one use for good old WD 😉.
I took the lens apart and cleaned with alcohol, it went right off. Lucky it was on the back element group, and just had to dismantle one part. I did this alcohol cleaning with a Yashica E35 some time ago, fungus never came back. I read that it can be cleaned also with vinegar and wet tissues for cleaning glasses (also containing alcohol and lemon acid).
how to disassemble the lens:
http://www3.telus.net/public/rpnchbck/Jupiter-8%20dismantle.html

thanks for reply and the tip.

PS: There are cases when fungus damage(corrode) the glass itself, I'm afraid that in that case there's no help.
 
never get WD 40 within a yard to a camera.
not a good lubricant or cleaner for any camera.
 
Last edited:
moretto said:
......Any suggestions for a lubricant? What do You usually use? I have used some fine oil for sewing machines, but I'm not very satisfied with it's performance...
Click to expand...


Hi
my best suggestion is that you perform an extremely indepht cleaning of the gears, to be checked with a loupe (I am not jocking). For this cleaning you will need a rough brush, whose hairs you will cut it short so they will be stronger and not so flexible.

As for the liquids to perform this cleaning, there are two easy to find everywhere. One is home alcohol, the other is thinner. You will be better by using both. Thinner is much more powerfull but disolves paint, not to speak about its harm to glass, so you cannot use it everywhere. And think where you use it beforehand.

Now, not by chance I have written about the cleaning first. A fundamentalist cleaning is of much more importance than the lubricants.

For the lubricants, if you can find those recommended at the KSS - do it. You will need both grease and oil, according to the specific part. Always in very small ammounts.

I cannot find in my surroundings the materials recommended at the KSS, so I had to lubricate with ordinary grease and a bit less ordinary oil.

Apply always small amounts, and dont forget that both grease and oil will be further expanding and improving your camera for months to come - if you do use it.

Nevertheless, don't forget I am not much reliable for Kiev tech issues.

Cheers,
Ruben
 
Last edited by a moderator:
moretto said:
A while ago I complained about Kiev disagreeing with me (or I with it)...today a friend's father gave me another one, knowing I'm a freak for old cameras. "Never had a film inside", he said..and "i know you like them..and we always used IDIOTS (that's our name for p&s), don't know why we even bought this one". Do I need another one ? No. Could I politely refuse? Yes. So did I refuse? Of course not.
So he presented me with a Kiev 4, serial 60****, J8 lens, exactly the same I have, only my is serial 71*** . What's the deal with this serials anyway, Is the first 2 digits the year of production?
OK, I really can't say if the film was ever in this camera..but the years of sitting in the closet covered the lens with fungus , and the interior with white moisture-"penicillin" fuzz marks. Surprisingly, everything works except the 1/2 and B on the shooter.
I cleaned the lens, disassembled the body and cleaned everything...Only my Yak is out of his fur, 😀 so I have to buy some synthetic gummy-sponge seals tomorrow.
Any suggestions for a lubricant? What do You usually use? I have used some fine oil for sewing machines, but I'm not very satisfied with it's performance...
Click to expand...

It's kind of like how cats come into a room and jump into the laps of only those people who hate cats. 😉
 
Originally Posted by Ruben:
Nevertheless, don't forget I am not much reliable for Kiev tech issues.

Yeees.Ruben..and Mr Zeiss knew a little about glass.
Anyhow, I discovered a very good cleaning liquid. It is called Antisilicon cleaner. It is used in car painting for last cleaning before spraying the paint. It cleans the grease and oil, fingerstains, and glue residue. It does not harm any paint or plastic. And evaporates rather quickly. Haven't tried it on the lens glass, though. And I won't.
For the lubricant, You got me scared there, guys. No sewing oil, WD. No WD, something else...so I found a solution for that. I have asked an old clock-repairsman in my town (not many of them left), and he gave me a few drops of oil he uses, and a bit of grease. Guess if it is good for clocks and watches, it must be ok for Kiev.
So I cleaned it and lubricated it, and everything works perfectly smooth, even 1/2 and B. Much smoother than the newer one I have.
Thanks everybody.😉


Originally Posted by tripod:
It's kind of like how cats come into a room and jump into the laps of only those people who hate cats. 😉

Must confess, tripod...kind of. 😉
Don't like cats very much, either. I'm more of a dog lover..Leica, maybe 😉)))
But that doesn't mean that I will run over a cat on the road.
You see, I grew up with a Zorki..and I got my first Kiev less than a year ago..don't blaim me if I find Zorki more friendly..it's a sentimental thing..😱
 
Congratulations to finishing the CLA, I'll add just for reference:

Teflon, or PTFE (poly-tetra-fluor-ethylene) or a spray containing it is a good lubricant. I use one called GT85 in red spray-can.

Never use a WD40. Even sewing oil is better than WD40.

As for grease - white lithium based grease containing PTFE is most suitable. Doesn't separate, doesn't flow.

If you want to give that J-8 a try - get some hydrogen peroxide and use it to clean the fungus. Disassembly instructions are on KSS or pentax-manuals.com. I've been quite successful at cleaning fungus from some Olympus Zuiko 50mm lenses recently using hydrogen peroxide.
 
Thanks, guys.
Ondrej, the lens is OK. I used alcohol, the stuff went right off. And the glass surface is clear. Maybe it was some moisture mold, not real fungus.I remember trying to clean a M42 Yashinon with real fungus with no success, the residue went off, but the glass (or the coating, I don't know) was "eaten" somehow..and fogged. Shame , it was a fine 50mm f1.4 lens.
 
Hi Ondrej
OFF topic Reading your bit about the zuiko 50mm lens I have one with fungus between the 2 front elements - removed the group - is there any way to get them apart - the smaller back one just rotates - doesnt unscrew
 
Hi Ondrej and Xairaa33,

Not that I care too much but both of you have rejected WD40 and it will be of interest to me if you could explain why, what is its negative effect. (Fortunately for the discussion I haven't used it, so I haven't anything to say, but I do have a canister at home). By better knowing the X, we may learn something about the Y.

Cheers,
Ruben
 
In my experience WD40 is not really a lubricant. It's more a penetrator and solvent.
I've read warnings about not using WD40 on door locks, and my experience with bicycle chains proves this. Not a long-term lubrication.

Better use something meant as a lubricant - something with PTFE.
 
1) It will off gas causing glues to dissolve.

2) It spreads worse than the plague.

3) It will dissolve shutter curtains.
 
In the past projects I used fine sewing machine oil.
In everyday use, normaly WD is used to unblock rusted screws and stuff. Spiderman mentioned bic chains..WD washes with water quickly, so for outdoor use..I dont know..not thet is a problem with camera, you won't wash it. Whisper has the point there under 2).
For motorcycle chain I use teflon spray lube...somebody mentioned teflon here..in my experience it is good for protection of material under it, but dust and dirt sticks to it like hell.
I would stick to fine mechanic oil of some kind..don't really know what the clock repairman gave me, but it is thin and stays where you put it, does not spread.
 
Whisper said:
1) It will off gas causing glues to dissolve.

2) It spreads worse than the plague.

3) It will dissolve shutter curtains.
Click to expand...

Hi whisper,

First, many thanks for the info.

Would you accept to use WD 40 in exceptional cases in order to facilitate a hard screw to get out within a Kiev ?

Cheers,
Ruben
 
As long as all traces are removed as soon as the work is done.

I've read many of your mental wanderings on the Kiev. I'm sure you will continue to invent your own methods as you see fit.
 
ruben said:
Hi Ondrej and Xairaa33,

Not that I care too much but both of you have rejected WD40 and it will be of interest to me if you could explain why, what is its negative effect. (Fortunately for the discussion I haven't used it, so I haven't anything to say, but I do have a canister at home). By better knowing the X, we may learn something about the Y.

Cheers,
Ruben
Click to expand...

read section number six on this article.

http://books.google.ca/books?id=FG4...KX2HWFb&sig=JsokuyAgfl8Kr46j6TLPZGKybPE&hl=en
 
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