Got it narrowed down to two cameras...

[DRabbit]

(if this is posted in the wrong forum, I apologize... wasn't sure where to post it)

Hi All,

I'm new around here but not new to rangefinders... I've had an M8 for about 2 years and just bought an R-D1 recently. HOWEVER, I'd really like to try my hand at film, so I've been researching the M-mount film camera world.

I think I've got it narrowed down to two cameras. The Bessa R3a and the Zeiss Ikon ZM (if I can find one). I thought about the Minolta CLE but I think the lack of AE lock would annoy me.

Please don't recommend Leicas. Most of them are out of budget for me, and for my first foray I'd like to try a brand I don't own (kinda like a "one of each" line of thinking). If I end up sticking with film and liking it, then a Leica will be an option in the future.

Was wondering what you thought... willing to listen to input from those who know... Only requirements are that it must be M mount and must have a built in light meter. Ability to also do some type of auto-exposure (aperture-priority-like) is an added bonus.

Thanks! Look forward to hanging around here more 🙂

 

[Al Kaplan]

How about a Leica or Minolta (same thing, different names) CL? No auto exposure but a superb M mount lens, built in meter, and it's small and light.

Welcome to the forum!

 

[JeffGreene]

There's also the Konica Hexar, if you're an aperture priority sort, but (and I know you aren't interested in Leicas) :angel:but a Leica M3 DS is reasonably priced and an excellent introduction to the M platform. Sorry couldn't help myself. 😉 Welcome to the forum.

 

[Jason Sprenger]

ZI over the R3a, if the price difference is not an issue.

o Viewfinder supports 28 and 35 directly.
o Viewfinder is the most friendly in RF to use with spectacles.
o Wider baselength, more accurate focusing.
o Easier AE lock
o Automatic frame-line change when lens is mounted
o The shutter release is smoother.

I have an R2a and the ZI, not the R3a, so I can't say first-hand if the 1:1 finder of the R3a would blow away these advantages of the ZI.

 

[DRabbit]

Jason, that was actually one of the curiosities I had about the R3a vs. the Ikon ZM (the 1:1 finder). Not having seen either in person, I rely solely on those of you in the know. Obviously, it seems the Ikon ZM is also harder to get your hands on in the used market, so unless I decide to be really patient, the choice may be made for me anyway...

 

[back alley]

what lenses do plan to use on it?

 

[DRabbit]

At least for now it'll be the lenses I have... CVs 15 Heliar and 75 Heliar, and Zeiss' 35mm f/2 Biogon and 50mm f/2 Planar.

 

[Bingley]

back alley poses the relevant question, IMO. I've had an R3A for a couple of months now, which I got for the 40mm framelines and AE. The 1:1 finder is great w/ a 50, and if you use 50 and 75 a lot the 3A may be a good, cost effective choice. The AE on the 3A works really well. Some have rf alignment issues (mine does). If your main, go-to lens is 35, however, the ZI may be the better choice.

 

[Roger Hicks]

ZM.

If you want to try everything, bear in mind a wonderful quote from the British Journal of Photography (from memory): If all three cameras [ZI, Voigtländer. Leica] were made by the same manufacturer, their prices would well reflect their place in the marketplace.

Voigtländers are stunning value and brilliant cameras; but if money isn't [that much of] a consideration, ZI are nicer cameras apart from the metering -- and even then, for AE models, ZI are as good as R*A, though I prefer R*M for manual metering.

Tashi delek,

R.

 

[Eric T]

Consider an Iskra or Iskra-2, a Russian copy of the Agfa Isolette 6x6 folder.
I bought one of these about a year ago and I am very impressed by the sharpness of the lens, ease of use, and portability.
If you want 35mm, consider a Leica IIIc or IIIf. I know you don't want us to recommend Leicas but the IIIc and IIIf are cheaper than a Bessa R2-4 and much cheaper than the Zeiss ZM. Yes, the screw mount Leicas are harder to load and use, but they are fun.

 

[ZeissFan]

The thing about recommending LTM cameras is that he will now have to buy all new lenses, unless he wants to pay to have his M lenses converted to LTM and then buy LTM to M adapters. Seems sort of silly to do that.

I tested a Konica Hexar RF for a couple of weeks, and I was very impressed with it. Nice viewfinder, good ergonomics and very solid build.

 

[DRabbit]

Yeah, I'd really like to stay with the lenses I already own... and also if I buy lenses in the future, all 3 cameras will benefit from them.

I'm a little concerned about the rangefinder going out of wack in the Bessas... it's a common concern? What's involved in re-aligning them?

 

[marke]

Get the ZI. Why? because it's sexier. 😉

Seriously, I have purposely never picked one up because of how great the VF is supposed to be. I'm afraid if I fall in love with the ZI, my MP will feel quite hurt. 🙁

 

[oldoc]

There are a couple of nice looking ZI's available on the Classifieds and on ebay as we speak.
I'd look there tonight.
Still, a classic M6 user is a good value these days, and I think, a better deal.
Sorry for ignoring your rules, but it's the truth. And it is about the same as a lie new ZI to your wallet.
Michael

 

[DRabbit]

Oldoc... I did see ONE ZI on the classifieds, but overseas. Could you point me in the right direction. I have one on ebay I'm watching and made an offer on, but I don't think the seller is going to take my offer... but I didn't see any others... care to PM those links? I've also got a R3A that's a strong possibility too. DECISIONS DECISIONS!

 

[CameraQuest]

It all depends upon which camera YOU, not someone else, enjoys shooting the most. And you won't really know that until you shoot them!

Comparing the ZI to the R3A, the ZI is a more expensive camera and has some advantages like a longer RF base. But personally I enjoy shooting a R3M more than either the R3A or the ZI. Both eyes open with a mechanical shutter is important to me.

Stephen

 

[mfogiel]

I have both the R3A and the ZI and obviously the ZI wins hands down in every respect. You will get a great camera for the 35mm and 50mm frames, and it will feel good in use and deliver spectacular quality with the 35 and 50mm lenses you have. Even if it was only as good as the Bessa, it would obliterate it just with one feature: it does not exhibit the extremely annoying backward tilt which is a major drawback of the Bessa line cameras. Just be patient to find one in your price range and go for it - it is the best M type camera ever made. P.S. budgt in a half case too.

 

[DRabbit]

Hi CQ... I totally get what you're saying, and that's part of what turns me on about the Zeiss. Follow my logic -- I have the M8, I have the R-D1 (similar to Bessa right?) and then I'd have the Zeiss... so it's kinda like I get to try a cam from each brand and get a sense of what, to me personally, are the strengths and weaknesses... well at least in handling/ergonomics.

I was under the impression the R-D1 is actually a CV body design. Is it similar to the R3A in it's physical style/handling? I can say, in the short time I've had the R-D1 I *do* like the ergonomics of it.

I've been back and forth on this quite a bit but I am waiting to hear back on a a few cameras now... of course, being Easter I might not hear back until tomorrow 🙂... I think price is going to be a deciding factor... I'm leaning towards the Zeiss, but I also can't go over a certain amount.

BTW, I did explore the Hexar a bit... my only concern there was focusing accuracy since I like to shoot wide open a lot.

 

[ZeissFan]

Sorry about referring to you in an earlier post as "he." There are so few women who post messages here that I occasionally forget that women also take part in the Internet photography forums.

In any case, I agree with a previous post about the Zeiss Ikon being a well-balanced camera.

As much as I liked the Bessa-R, one of the annoying traits was that it tilted backward ... roughly this angle "/" -- even with a pancake lane. It doesn't seem like a big thing until you realize that you're always trying to straighten the body. It's not a big deal if you don't hang the camera from your neck or shoulder.

The Zeiss Ikon sits upright -- like this "|" -- and you never think about it, because the body is never flipping itself to an odd angle.

The Zeiss Ikon is a slightly wider body and is very tight.

 

[DRabbit]

No problem with the "he" reference, ZF. For some reason it seems to happen to me a lot... maybe I pick masculine usernames, or maybe I pick masculine hobbies... not sure 😉

Having the input about the Bessa's natural tendency to "tilt" is good for me to know. I actually seem to have a hard time keeping cameras level as it is (no matter their weight). I'm not sure why that is, but one that naturally likes to keep itself upright, at least on the z-axis properly, is probably a good thing for me.