GR Digital V to have APS-C sensor

[Vobluda]

I perfectly dont mind cameras without the finder, it doesnt matter at all.
And in my opinion within 5-7 years only professional cameras will have one.

 

[Exdsc]

Reflect on what? That P&S's don't work for you?

Your P&S photographs.

Not with "i'm an artist" tainted glasses, but critically.

 

[Murchu]

Your P&S photographs.

Not with "i'm an artist" tainted glasses, but critically.

Well, they're not for me, but that is not to say critical work is not possible with them, which your previous post seemed to imply.

 

[paulfish4570]

i've done some good stuff with a p&s, but i always bracket if possible to have an assortment of framings ... 🙂

 

[nightfly]

The crux of opposition to point and shoots no matter how good a sensor is contained here.

The reason people want viewfinders and such is that they want to feel like a "photographer" rather than a "tourist". The act of putting the camera to your face is what many associate with being a "photographer".

It's more about people's sense of self than the image produced.

Same reason why Joe/Jane schmo "needs a DSLR" to take pictures of their pets/babies/sunsets. It's all about self image, not the produced image.

Was watching "The Many Lives of William Klein" and he was in Times Square marveling at all the people taking pictures and said something like "they are taking the most avant guard photographs that no photographer would even think of taking". Probably a bit tongue in cheek but I think his point was that they haven't' absorbed a set of rules about photography so they were free to shoot however they wanted.

And finally your images are no different than any tourist with a P&S shooting at arms length, don't take my words for it, reflect on it.

 

[jsrockit]

Your P&S photographs.

What cameras are and aren't P&S cameras? Where do you draw the line?

Why would this Ricoh make pictures that are of any lesser quality than a APS-C sensor DSLR with a 18mm lens? or do you feel that only big cameras with full frame sensors and up are worthy of using? Connection with subject? You can argue that an LCD allows you to really connect with your subject since you don't have a camera completely in front of your face. Again, these are all things that may not work for you and work very well for others.

 

[paulfish4570]

"Was watching "The Many Lives of William Klein" and he was in Times Square marveling at all the people taking pictures and said something like "they are taking the most avant guard photographs that no photographer would even think of taking". Probably a bit tongue in cheek but I think his point was that they haven't' absorbed a set of rules about photography so they were free to shoot however they wanted."

nice citation there, fly ...

 

[Exdsc]

The crux of opposition to point and shoots no matter how good a sensor is contained here.

The reason people want viewfinders and such is that they want to feel like a "photographer" rather than a "tourist". The act of putting the camera to your face is what many associate with being a "photographer".

It's more about people's sense of self than the image produced.

Same reason why Joe/Jane schmo "needs a DSLR" to take pictures of their pets/babies/sunsets. It's all about self image, not the produced image.

Was watching "The Many Lives of William Klein" and he was in Times Square marveling at all the people taking pictures and said something like "they are taking the most avant guard photographs that no photographer would even think of taking". Probably a bit tongue in cheek but I think his point was that they haven't' absorbed a set of rules about photography so they were free to shoot however they wanted.

Klein's work was revolutionary because it was casual and broke many orthodox rules of photography at the time. Today Klein's style of photography is the default for everyone with a smartphone or digi P&S.

Throughout the changes in photography history, the classic, looking through the viewfinder and critical work, from Lewis Hine to Gene Smith to Salgado has remained the backbone of serious photography. Salgado's Genesis for example is very orthodox and yet its the most celebrated post-digital photography work to date.

Looking through the optical viewfinder is what makes photography different from painting or any other means of expression. It is a unique way of looking at the world, everything is compressed and heightened, which allows for concentration, careful framing and therefore a personal touch to photos. That personal touch is missing in LCD or EVF shooting. Because one cannot get emotionally connected to a scene through a 3" LCD. EVF might help with framing; LCD shooting is a complete disconnect both stylistically and emotionally from the subject.

 

[Exdsc]

What cameras are and aren't P&S cameras? Where do you draw the line?

Why would this Ricoh make pictures that are of any lesser quality than a APS-C sensor DSLR with a 18mm lens? or do you feel that only big cameras with full frame sensors and up are worthy of using? Connection with subject? You can argue that an LCD allows you to really connect with your subject since you don't have a camera completely in front of your face. Again, these are all things that may not work for you and work very well for others.

P&S is not an issue, its LCD only P&S/any camera that is an issue.

Moriyama's famous Ricoh film P&S did have an OVF and he used it very carefully as some of his videos show.

 

[jsrockit]

P&S is not an issue, its LCD only P&S or any camera that is an issue.

I feel that way too, but others do not. Again, this is personal opinion and not fact. It's kind of like saying waist level shooting with a TLR is not valid.

Moriyama's famous Ricoh film P&S did have an OVF and he used it very carefully as some of his videos show.

And conversely, many videos show him shooting from the side of his hip while purposely looking away from his "subject."

 

[kbg32]

Looking through the optical viewfinder is what makes photography different from painting or any other means of expression. It is a unique way of looking at the world, everything is compressed and heightened, which allows for concentration, careful framing and therefore a personal touch to photos. That personal touch is missing in LCD or EVF shooting. Because one cannot get emotionally connected to a scene through a 3" LCD. EVF might help with framing, LCD shooting is a complete disconnect both stylistically and emotionally from the subject.

You are unequivocally wrong. One can liken the 3" LCD to the ground glass of a view camera. If you're not connected emotionally, don't blame the camera.

 

[Exdsc]

And conversely, many videos show him shooting from the side of his hip while purposely looking away from his "subject."

He shot like that long before digital LCD shooting became the norm. But then again while his hip-shots during film days was unique, today its the norm.

 

[Exdsc]

One can liken the 3" LCD to the ground glass of a view camera.

Either you have not experienced a ground glass, or even a FF SLR VF or you're simply being argumentative.

 

[kbg32]

Either you have not experienced a ground glass, or even a FF SLR VF or you're simply being argumentative.

I have over 37 years experience as photographer.

 

[nightfly]

You obviously haven't looked at flickr lately.

There aren't a million William Klein's on there unfortunately.

Tying the history of photography to looking through an optical viewfinder seems really limiting to me.

If it hasn't already happened, I'm sure some great photographer will have a breakthrough exhibit of work shot on a point and shoot or more likely a cellphone and you'll be forced to revise this very limited view.

I really fail to see how a LCD is much different than a TLR or a Medium Format SLR and I'm sure you wouldn't discount the work done with these cameras.

The magic happens in the eye not the viewfinder.

I can certainly see preferring an optical viewfinder, but it's just that, a preference.

Klein's work was revolutionary because it was casual and broke many orthodox rules of photography at the time. Today Klein's style of photography is the default for everyone with a smartphone or digi P&S.

Throughout the changes in photography history, the classic, looking through the viewfinder and critical work, from Lewis Hine to Gene Smith to Salgado has remained the backbone of serious photography. Salgado's Genesis for example is very orthodox and yet its the most celebrated post-digital photography work to date.

Looking through the optical viewfinder is what makes photography different from painting or any other means of expression. It is a unique way of looking at the world, everything is compressed and heightened, which allows for concentration, careful framing and therefore a personal touch to photos. That personal touch is missing in LCD or EVF shooting. Because one cannot get emotionally connected to a scene through a 3" LCD. EVF might help with framing; LCD shooting is a complete disconnect both stylistically and emotionally from the subject.

 

[Archlich]

Looking through the optical viewfinder is what makes photography different from painting or any other means of expression. It is a unique way of looking at the world, everything is compressed and heightened, which allows for concentration, careful framing and therefore a personal touch to photos. That personal touch is missing in LCD or EVF shooting. Because one cannot get emotionally connected to a scene through a 3" LCD. EVF might help with framing; LCD shooting is a complete disconnect both stylistically and emotionally from the subject.

I fail to grab the logic here. While I personally dislike both, how are EVF and LCD not also "unique way of looking at the world" that "everything is compressed and heightened"?

Because you frame in a different way (powered by a battery) you are "completely disconnected" with you subject emotionally?

What if you don't frame - just guessing from experience, feeling or "emotion"? Like Moriyama did in half the shots done with his S2 and 25/4 Nikkor in the 60s?


Bizarre notions.

 

[Aristophanes]

I perfectly dont mind cameras without the finder, it doesnt matter at all.
And in my opinion within 5-7 years only professional cameras will have one.

I would add that I don't mind cameras with an optional finder, but it has to be optical, not an EVF.

There are times when an LCD is more than adequate and more versatile than a VF, and times when only a VF will do. I think the Ricoh GR looks to be capable of both. I'd rather have choice than bulk with a built-in VF.

 

[kbg32]

I think it is extremely exciting where the technology of photography is going. It goes along with Kodak's, Polaroid's original idea that image making should be instantaneous, immediate.

Whether one prefers to shoot film or digital or use an optical finder, a ground glass, an EVF, or a LCD - it doesn't matter. It's personal preference.

 

[Exdsc]

Its easy to do an experiment with OVF and LCD.

Focus on someone or something that you're emotionally connected to, look at it for at least two minutes with an OVF and similarly for 2 minutes with a LCD.

Reflect on your experience, which of those two means of looking give you an intimate connection to the subject - and give you a feeling of being there in the picture with the subject.


Photograph someone crying with a OVF and you'll be affected emotionally as well, with an LCD you won't see the tears.

 

[kbg32]

Exdsc, it is not as easy as one would think. Many factors came into play to have an emotional, intimate connection to the subject. I know, feel, what you're trying to get at, but I, personally, don't have a problem.