GR Digital V to have APS-C sensor

[Exdsc]

Not to make this debate philosophical or anything but LCD shooting has helped to make photography dehumanized and thus uninteresting. This is my personal opinion and I'm sure others will disagree.

Apart from its basic technical deficiency, LCD shooting lacks the human connection to the subject that makes for emotionally engaging photographs.

 

[kbg32]

As long as you know it is your opinion. I cannot disagree with you more.

What has made photography more dehumanizing and uninteresting, are the same reasons that make it so interesting now - the technology. Anyone can pick up a camera, use camera ready images, put up a website, and call themselves a photographer. No fuss, no muss. No years of honing one's craft or paying dues as an assistant or crap jobs to pay the bills.

 

[Godfrey]

Just read the last several pages on this thread.

The thesis that an LCD doesn't provide some mystical connection to the subject is absurd. I started photography with a 6x6 cm screen view in a 1949 Rolleiflex ... A dim and difficult viewing/focusing environment compared to any of today's excellent LCD displays. And, wow, the image is reversed left to right too. Talk about being disconnected from the subject.

The truly absurd part of this thesis is that a GR, like most of the high end cameras in this class, can easily be fitted with a top notch optical viewfinder if you prefer that point of view. I use my GXR and X2 cameras set up that way quite often as I do often like to use an eye-level viewfinder. However, I use them just as often with only the LCD or with their EVFs too. All three viewfinder types have their plusses and minuses, and are advantageous in some circumstances.

Dogmatic drivel about the mystical connection embued by an optical viewfinder makes no sense, it's not rational or objective. It just marks a particular individual's personal bias and prejudice, their emotional attachment to a particular way of using a camera. Nothing wrong with that, but let's not attempt "philosophical" on something so absurd.

BTW, to the person who said that if they could find a large sensor, compact point and shoot with a 35mm EFoV they'd buy it: the Leica X2 is superb and fits this description almost perfectly. Classic controls, LCD built in, EVF and OVF options, top notch lens and image qualities. I have the Ricoh GXR and both A12 28 and 50 mm camera units, but I find I love shooting with the X2 even more because of the 35mm EFoV.

G

 

[igi]

Not to make this debate philosophical or anything but LCD shooting has helped to make photography dehumanized and thus uninteresting. This is my personal opinion and I'm sure others will disagree.

Apart from its basic technical deficiency, LCD shooting lacks the human connection to the subject that makes for emotionally engaging photographs.

What's more dehumanizing is that you need an OVF to feel something. I'm glad you're keeping your opinions to yourself.

 

[jsrockit]

Not to make this debate philosophical or anything but LCD shooting has helped to make photography dehumanized and thus uninteresting.

I see plenty of interesting photography... but then again, I'm not jaded.

 

[Exdsc]

I see plenty of interesting photography... but then again, I'm not jaded.

Jaded is what exactly life looks like on an LCD screen.

 

[dcsang]

<snip>Reflect on your experience, which of those two means of looking give you an intimate connection to the subject - and give you a feeling of being there in the picture with the subject. </snip>

The way you describe this suggests the following:
1) LCD - being more akin to watching television
2) Viewfinder - being more akin to being a voyeur

Personally, I like an OVF but I also know that the moment I raise that to my eye people on the street are aware that I am taking a photograph and become nervous - vs - "being the tourist" and using an LCD at arms length; people are less aware OR they don't care because, after all, it's just a tourist taking a snapshot. . . . 🙂

Cheers,
Dave

 

[Exdsc]

Just read the last several pages on this thread.

The thesis that an LCD doesn't provide some mystical connection to the subject is absurd. I started photography with a 6x6 cm screen view in a 1949 Rolleiflex ... A dim and difficult viewing/focusing environment compared to any of today's excellent LCD displays. And, wow, the image is reversed left to right too. Talk about being disconnected from the subject.

The truly absurd part of this thesis is that a GR, like most of the high end cameras in this class, can easily be fitted with a top notch optical viewfinder if you prefer that point of view. I use my GXR and X2 cameras set up that way quite often as I do often like to use an eye-level viewfinder. However, I use them just as often with only the LCD or with their EVFs too. All three viewfinder types have their plusses and minuses, and are advantageous in some circumstances.

Dogmatic drivel about the mystical connection embued by an optical viewfinder makes no sense, it's not rational or objective. It just marks a particular individual's personal bias and prejudice, their emotional attachment to a particular way of using a camera. Nothing wrong with that, but let's not attempt "philosophical" on something so absurd.

BTW, to the person who said that if they could find a large sensor, compact point and shoot with a 35mm EFoV they'd buy it: the Leica X2 is superb and fits this description almost perfectly. Classic controls, LCD built in, EVF and OVF options, top notch lens and image qualities. I have the Ricoh GXR and both A12 28 and 50 mm camera units, but I find I love shooting with the X2 even more because of the 35mm EFoV.

G

Photography for me is all about experimentation. I have shot enough with a LCD to have reached such a conclusion.

It might be an absurd conclusion but absurd is a tricky word, there is a whole school of philosophy dedicated to that just one word.

 

[benlees]

Not to make this debate philosophical or anything but LCD shooting has helped to make photography dehumanized and thus uninteresting. This is my personal opinion and I'm sure others will disagree.

Apart from its basic technical deficiency, LCD shooting lacks the human connection to the subject that makes for emotionally engaging photographs.

Good stuff! 🙂angel🙂 When you photograph anyone there is a camera in the middle. Photographing anything is an act of separation. It is what it is. At least when you use an LCD the subjects can see your eyes and mouth making it more "humane", lol. This why it is known that TLR users are much more highly regarded, not only in artistic circles, but also in the annals of all humanistic pursuits.

 

[dcsang]

I'm not a mod but .. maybe "Exdsc" can start a thread about this somewhere else and we can get this thread back ON TOPIC regarding the Ricoh? 🙂

Just a thought.

Cheers,
Dave

 

[Exdsc]

The way you describe this suggests the following:
1) LCD - being more akin to watching television
2) Viewfinder - being more akin to being a voyeur

Cheers,
Dave

Even the smallest TV is better than a 3" LCD, but TV is also very detached. watching a tornado on TV is interesting, being in the presence of a tornado is a different matter.

And voyeurism is more of an intent than in the action itself.

 

[Exdsc]

I'm not a mod but .. maybe "Exdsc" can start a thread about this somewhere else and we can get this thread back ON TOPIC regarding the Ricoh? 🙂

Just a thought.

Cheers,
Dave

This debate is never ending, but yes, back to the topic, "Dave".

 

[jsrockit]

Jaded is what exactly life looks like on an LCD screen.

Fair enough... but again, personal opinion. I'm more into OVF / EVFs than LCDs, but I can also use an LCD. I was playing devil's advocate a little, but I actually tend to agree with you... just not absolutely.

 

[Exdsc]

Fair enough... but again, personal opinion. I'm more into OVF / EVFs than LCDs, but I can also use an LCD. I was playing devil's advocate a little, but I actually tend to agree with you... just not absolutely.

Don't hold me to it but I'm going fully OVF.

Every photo with an OVF, even for classifieds. Film guys did it for years, why can't I...

 

[jsrockit]

Don't hold me to it but I'm going fully OVF.

Every photo with an OVF, even for classifieds. Film guys did it for years, why can't I...

So, are you going to get a GR and put an OVF on it?

 

[Exdsc]

So, are you going to get a GR and put an OVF on it?

The only small camera worth getting right now is the Fuji X100s. There is a reason why that RF style OVF VF has stayed with us for so long and has been used by so many important photographers.

But I'm going to make things more difficult for myself by shooting with a DSLR. I need a challenge.

 

[paulfish4570]

Exdsc, i wish to respond to the tears comment of yours. i can very easily see the expressions, tears, etc. of my grandchildren while using the lcd on my fuji x100. it is no trick to watch the lcd and the subject at the same time. the lcd gives changes in perspective and distance-to-subject without moving my whole body.
i use the evf and ovf, too, by the way, most of the time, usually for my carefully composed static stuff. even then i use the evf more often than the ovf because it gives true framing; the x100's ovf frames do not move with focus, thereby growing or cutting the frame of the shot, if not compensated for (i do know from use about where the ovf bottom frame is for a given photo, but it is very easy to miss frame ... 🙂

any photos to show us? your handle turns up nothing in the gallery ... 🙂

 

[btgc]

This reminds me trannies - no auto, manual shift ony! Then placement of shift stick - remember, when Honda came out with a one on console instead of floor? That were plainly weird 😀 And now? It's common! I'm even not talking american style, on a steering wheel column - but big part of world manage to shift gears, somehow.

 

[Aristophanes]

The only small camera worth getting right now is the Fuji X100s. There is a reason why that RF style OVF VF has stayed with us for so long and has been used by so many important photographers.

But I'm going to make things more difficult for myself by shooting with a DSLR. I need a challenge.

The Fuji X100 series is hardly small. I have smaller SLR's.

 

[Aristophanes]

Klein's work was revolutionary because it was casual and broke many orthodox rules of photography at the time. Today Klein's style of photography is the default for everyone with a smartphone or digi P&S.

Throughout the changes in photography history, the classic, looking through the viewfinder and critical work, from Lewis Hine to Gene Smith to Salgado has remained the backbone of serious photography. Salgado's Genesis for example is very orthodox and yet its the most celebrated post-digital photography work to date.

Looking through the optical viewfinder is what makes photography different from painting or any other means of expression. It is a unique way of looking at the world, everything is compressed and heightened, which allows for concentration, careful framing and therefore a personal touch to photos. That personal touch is missing in LCD or EVF shooting. Because one cannot get emotionally connected to a scene through a 3" LCD. EVF might help with framing; LCD shooting is a complete disconnect both stylistically and emotionally from the subject.

Klein took the techniques of cameo and vernacular photography and with a brash attitude made it art through publication and raw salesmanship. No one saw that more than Klein. He neither created nor discovered the "style". He sold it.

Careful framing does not = a personal touch. That's subjective to you and you alone and not a general rule of photography. That's quite the generalization you impose on everyone else. LCD = disconnect in YOUR mind, not everyone's. Perhaps you should speak for yurself and not the rest of the world holding a camera.