Had a meeting with a pretty big company about a job

[raid]

Congratulations. Get everything in writing, and do your best to show professionalism.
These are good news, as Roger has said. I would get "that book" that Frank has suggested to you. The more you (quickly) know, the better for you.

 

[Sparrow]

It's also worth knowing that any promise on payment dates from the business side may not be upheld by the accounts department. While the business may ask, in good faith, for 30 days credit, the time from your putting in the invoice to receiving payment may be as long as 90 days.

Even though, here in the UK, the law allows creditors to automatically add interest charges to overdue accounts, large customers simply ignore this. They know that small creditors will swallow their pride and wait for the money, fearing the loss of future business with the customer.

... pretty much, and its 30 days from invoice month end to boot, so that's up to 60 in practice, or if the account dept are on a tea break anything up to 120 🙂 ... credit-control is one of those skills seldom discussed here I've noticed

 

[Dralowid]

... pretty much, and its 30 days from invoice month end to boot, so that's up to 60 in practice, or if the account dept are on a tea break anything up to 120 🙂 ... credit-control is one of those skills seldom discussed here I've noticed

Yup so at the least a purchase order detailing the work with job number (against which to invoice) and clear terms of payment.

You'll be waiting awhile so be prepared for it but a lot of publishers (here in the UK at least) pay the 'little people' first and string the printers and large suppliers out as long as they can. The 'little people' make too much noise, wailing and gnashing of teeth etc. etc when they don't get paid so it is often easier to pay them first.

The day your payment is due, phone. You may discover that the creative types who commissioned you haven't got round to signing the invoice and sending it down to accounts so you will need to chase them up too. Don't email, phone. Get on first name terms with the credit controller and life will get a whole lot easier.

You may not think this is what you ought to be doing and that it is their responsibility. I suppose you are right but it is not the way the world works.

It is said that Tesco make more money from handling money than they do from selling goods. You pay for your bananas when you buy them. They probably pay the supplier on 60 or 90 days. That's a big chunk of money in the bank working for them.

Michael
(was on the other side of the fence for many years)

 

[Sejanus.Aelianus]

It is said that Tesco make more money from handling money than they do from selling goods. You pay for your bananas when you buy them. They probably pay the supplier on 60 or 90 days. That's a big chunk of money in the bank working for them.

That is very true. Without naming anyone, I can assure you that there are credit control packages in big companies that are directly linked to the investment department's systems. I know this because I have worked on parts of such systems. The sums these big boys can make from putting out their cash on the spot markets or through currency dealers are substantial. 😉

 

[willie_901]

Thanks for sharing this wonderful news.

 

[rwintle]

Well done, congratulations! I have no useful advice unfortunately, but will happily exhort you to shoot the heck out of this assignment. 🙂

 

[koven]

Thanks guys I just adjusted my list to reflect things I really need and purchased them. I sent the invoice in and everything is fine. I sent one of the assistants a few test shots and they are pretty excited.

The thing I learned from this whole situation is that I should wait a few hours and think about what to say before I reply to any business email. Not knowing that I would have to cover the expenses probably made me look amateurish but they knew that from the gate.


I was a bit stressed but now I feel ready for the shoot.

 

[noisycheese]

...The thing I learned from this whole situation is that I should wait a few hours and think about what to say before I reply to any business email.

That is critical for any of us.

If a person or a company asks for a price, tell them "I will have to do a bit of research and get back to you." Don't throw out a number off the top of your head - if you do, you are stuck with that number, for better or worse. I would not even give them a ballpark estimate on the spot.


If the person or company lens on you for an immediate answer, red flags should be going up in your mind.

 

[Roger Hicks]

. . . If the person or company leans on you for an immediate answer, red flags should be going up in your mind.

VERY true!

Cheers,

R.l

 

[N.delaRua]

Awesome, what a great present.

I've always admired your work in the X100 thread. You have a way with that camera and perspective; I am sure you are going to nail it.

If you can share with us the final product please do.

 

[35mmdelux]

I presume you present yourself as a budding professional...and perhaps demonstrated a portfolio. I would presume a pro has at least couple pro cameras and a few primes; or a zoom and a long?

May I ask, then, what gives with rentals?? As a professional why expect squat from your employer besides timely pay check?

Good luck with your new gig and your career as well.

 

[enochRoot]

Congrats, and great photos on your website btw!

My wife is an Art Buyer and deals with commercial shoots in the $100-300k range. I'd say about 50-75% of the photographers she works with ask for an advance to cover pre-production costs. It's generally in the form of an initial invoice that is rushed through. So for future reference, it's not amateurish looking to have some expenses covered up front. Just float it and see what they say. Have a back-up if they can't make it happen, but they shouldn't freak out or look at you weird for asking!

 

[fdarnell]

Congrats, doesn't sound like their terms are anything out of the ordinary. Just make sure you get a list and agreement on the "must have shots". Sometimes companies try to take advantage of inexperience by performing what I call "mission creep". You plan on something that will take a few hours to get the shots they want, and then it turns into three days of ongoing work since they keep asking for something else, thereby "expanding the mission". Rule of thumb is usually the mission expands but the pay does not.

It does depend highly on the client. Keep them focused, since you say they don't seem to know much about photography and stay in the driver's seat with a "short leash".

That way, you will get paid fairly for what you do, they will get what they want or at least think they want, and you will get a good reference.

 

[Roger Hicks]

I presume you present yourself as a budding professional...and perhaps demonstrated a portfolio. I would presume a pro has at least couple pro cameras and a few primes; or a zoom and a long?

May I ask, then, what gives with rentals?? As a professional why expect squat from your employer besides timely pay check?

Good luck with your new gig and your career as well.

That used to be the case, but apparently "rental everything" began to creep in as early as the 1980s: studio, lights, cameras... Yes, I find it odd too. But apparently it's not all that unusual any more.

Cheers,

R.

 

[daveywaugh]

Agree with the general consensus - those terms seem the norm. Your work is brilliant BTW - I can see why you got the gig! Well done.

 

[Scheelings]

Awesome, what a great present.

I've always admired your work in the X100 thread. You have a way with that camera and perspective; I am sure you are going to nail it.

If you can share with us the final product please do.

Likewise I remember many of the photos from RFF after viewing Koven's website. He always creates very striking images - a natural talent.

Congrats Koven

 

[kkdanamatt]

Koven:
Keep your wits about you.
Keep track of every penny that you spend on this job and bill your client accordingly.
You will gain their respect and it may lead to future jobs.
I've been on both sides...both hiring a photographer and selling my photographic services.
I've never paid any money upfront and I've never been paid any money upfront .
I shot a 150 page illustrated catalog for a major international corporation and submitted my invoice at the end of the job. The check was cut on the 10th day of the following month (10EOM).
A few years later, when I hired a photographer to shoot 4x5 chromes for a client, I paid the photographer the exact same way.
That used to be the norm in NYC, but perhaps things have changed in recent years.
Good luck with the assignment!

 

[Rangefinderfreak]

I always added a line in my invoices: "The images are property of the photographer, until the invoice is paid in full" That means: If they don`t pay in time, but use your images, they are commiting a copyright fringe. If they don`t pay at all, you can sue them for non payment and a copyright case. The copyright infringement is nowdays a better business that shooting the images in the first place...