das
Well-known
I have been trying to avoid scratching the itch for a Russian 6x6 medium format camera. Does anyone have any experience with the Hartblei and the Arax Kiev 60 reworks and have a recommendation for which is a better option? Hartblei's Kievs are half the price of the Arax ones, but it seems that maybe Arax does a more thorough restore? Or maybe not? Links for reference. https://www.hartblei.com/product/kiev-60m-camera-kit/ or https://araxfoto.com/cameras/arax-60mlu/. Also, the idea that both companies modify Kiev 60s to work as a 645 camera is intriguing, as one can get more shots on increasingly expensive 120 film and I never really could get a good composition handle on 6x6 photos anyway.
rbiemer
Unabashed Amateur
I have owned an Arax 60 and currently own and use an Arax 88. I do not have any first hand experience with Hartblei but when I was trying to learn about the Kiev 60 and which I wanted to spend money about, Arax ended up being my choice.
At the time, there was some discussion of whether or not any given Hartblei camera had actually been built by Hartblei; apparently there were a couple different sellers claiming the Hartblei name. I do not know how that has played out in the decade and a half or so since I read about it.
Not sure if it is still aropund but there was a lively discussion on the Delphi Forums about all things FSU and there was also The Kiev Report. If those are still on line, they might be good resources for info.
I went with Arax for two main reasons: at the time, Arax was the less expensive choice between them and Hartblei. And Gevorg Vartanyan (the owner of Arax) was very willing to answer all my questions before I spent any money, and after he has continued to be will to do so. A minor reason was the ability to order a camera with a custom "leather" covering.
when I ultimately surrendered to my desire for an 88, Arax was again my choice. No issues with my camera or the two film backs I got with it. I've had the camera for about two years now (I think? not quite certain, tbh.) and it's been fine.
Personally, I would probably avoid the 645 option because I think--and this is just my subjective opinion--that the modifications to enable that are mostly adding complexity and may not be the best for longevity and reliability. Also, with the 60, you will be shooting in vertical format which is, for me, not as useful. Like a lot of us, I started with 35mm cameras and have become used to the idea that landscape format is "normal".
When shooting 6x6 I do try to fill the frame but I also will happily crop the final image to whatever seems to work best for the photo and don't really feel limited by the square.
A couple of links to start you off:
http://www.rickdenney.com/The_Kiev_Report/Kiev_report_webpage.htm
and
https://forums.delphiforums.com/kievreport?gid=2087786558
and
https://www.kievaholic.com/
Good luck!
At the time, there was some discussion of whether or not any given Hartblei camera had actually been built by Hartblei; apparently there were a couple different sellers claiming the Hartblei name. I do not know how that has played out in the decade and a half or so since I read about it.
Not sure if it is still aropund but there was a lively discussion on the Delphi Forums about all things FSU and there was also The Kiev Report. If those are still on line, they might be good resources for info.
I went with Arax for two main reasons: at the time, Arax was the less expensive choice between them and Hartblei. And Gevorg Vartanyan (the owner of Arax) was very willing to answer all my questions before I spent any money, and after he has continued to be will to do so. A minor reason was the ability to order a camera with a custom "leather" covering.
when I ultimately surrendered to my desire for an 88, Arax was again my choice. No issues with my camera or the two film backs I got with it. I've had the camera for about two years now (I think? not quite certain, tbh.) and it's been fine.
Personally, I would probably avoid the 645 option because I think--and this is just my subjective opinion--that the modifications to enable that are mostly adding complexity and may not be the best for longevity and reliability. Also, with the 60, you will be shooting in vertical format which is, for me, not as useful. Like a lot of us, I started with 35mm cameras and have become used to the idea that landscape format is "normal".
When shooting 6x6 I do try to fill the frame but I also will happily crop the final image to whatever seems to work best for the photo and don't really feel limited by the square.
A couple of links to start you off:
http://www.rickdenney.com/The_Kiev_Report/Kiev_report_webpage.htm
and
https://forums.delphiforums.com/kievreport?gid=2087786558
and
https://www.kievaholic.com/
Good luck!
BWF
Established
I had an Arax 60 for a while. It always worked great. I sold it but regret it.
Retro-Grouch
Veteran
Just DON"T (as in DO NOT!) under any circumstances buy a Kiev that has not been reconditioned or rebuilt. Ask me how I know!
Beemermark
Veteran
I've got a Kiev 6C, had it for quite a while, with a Zeiss 50mm lens that (except for the meter) works well. Really cheap wide angle Hassie. Once thing to consider between the two vendors is shipping costs. $66 from Russia, while Hartblei says shipping is included. Not sure if free shipping applies to out of country sales.
punkzter
Established
I've had both an Arax 88 (now sold) and an Arax 60. I had some issues with the Arax 88 film back, but the Arax 60 is just wonderful. I do not know much about Hartblei. I wouldn't hesitate to get an Arax.
das
Well-known
Thank you everyone for the perspectives. It seems like the Arax 60 is a solid choice, but what is unknown is whether the Arax is worth double the price of the Hartblei. It is unclear from Hartblei's website whether it does as a complete of a rebuild as Arax does. Hartblei also does a "made to order" thing where they don't do the work unless a camera is ordered. According to them, it is like a 3-4 week lead time before it can be shipped..
das
Well-known
Here is some updated info. Apparently, Hartblei does not have any Kiev 60 rebuilds for sale (not sure if out of stock or it is just not doing them anymore). Arax wants about $825 shipped for the full kit plus a few percentage on the purchase by whatever way you want to pay. Arax still seems like a decent deal for an essentially "new" 6x6 interchangeable-lens medium format SLR.
ikondave
Newbie
One advantage that the 60 has is that new replacement parts can be purchased from Arax. These cameras are real beasts, but are capable of producing remarkable pictures.