has a petition EVER worked?

msbarnes

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I oftentimes see petitions to bring back film. So I'm wondering, has anything like this every worked? I'm not trying to be pessimistic but I'm genuinely curious of any of these efforts have ever worked in the past. I see this everywhere, like TV shows, for example.
 
Petitions kept the original "Star Trek" alive in the 1960's. The series was slated to be cancelled but the fans bombarding NBC with mail kept it in production.

Jim B.

I had no idea! I'm not a Star Trek fan myself but that's interesting. I guess it is just that the fail more oftentimes than not.
 
Rather than writing petitions to convince them to bring back an old emulsion, I would suggest spending the time shooting with current emulsions to keep them from becoming uneconomical as well...
 
Petitions kept the original "Star Trek" alive in the 1960's. The series was slated to be cancelled but the fans bombarding NBC with mail kept it in production.

Jim B.

Actually it has worked for several shows. If I remember correctly, it got Jericho a second season and might have been used to get Roswell an extra season as well (I remember reading something about Tobasco?).

Unfortunately, the difference between TV shows and film is that a dedicated fan base is something that can be sold to advertisers (even if it is relatively small). If a film doesn't sell enough units, its hard to make a business case for it.

One thought is that perhaps such a petition should be addressed to Lomography. They seem to be getting a fair bit of mileage out of their 110 films.

--
Bill
 
A good question, and one I sometimes wonder about. These film petitions do seem like wastes of time, although i appreciate the symbolic effort.

With tv, have you heard about the recent crowdfunding of the Veronica Mars movie, to be adapted from the tv show?
http://laist.com/2013/04/12/veronica_mars_kickstarter_closes_to.php

And, Zach Braff is trying to do the same thing to fund a sequel to his film Garden State.

The economics make sense with one-off projects, probably more than for continuing commercial production of products that have been deemed not profitable.
 
Rather than writing petitions to convince them to bring back an old emulsion, I would suggest spending the time shooting with current emulsions to keep them from becoming uneconomical as well...

Exactly! While you might be able to save a tv show, get someone on a ballot in your city or state, or get to hold a union vote, trying to get a bankrupt company to lose even more money seems like a waste of effort to me...
 
When Ilford Imaging went into administration and was reorganized in 2004-5, one of the things the new ownership group did was to terminate the policy of selling uncut rolls of film to third parties such as Photo Warehouse, who used to offer the service of cutting sheet film to any odd size you wanted, even in small quantities.

Although there wasn't a formal petition, several of us who enjoy using view cameras that take odd sizes (for example, 6 1/2 x 8 1/2, 7x11, 7x17, etc.) communicated with Ilford to express our concerns about not being able to get affordable, high-quality film for our cameras any longer.

They responded with the annual special order program in which they cut sheet film to special sizes without the usual requirement of a minimum order of several thousand dollars.
 
Yes, concerning film there are indeed several examples where strong public pressure from the users has been successful:

1. Fuji Velvia: Discontinued in 2005/2006. Then massive complaints from the user base. Fuji listened. They reformulated the film (necessary because some raw material for the old formula was not available anymore).
And they re-introduced it (even slightly better) 2007 as Velvia 50.

2. Polaroid / Impossible film: The IP team has been of course strongly encouraged by the big demand and support from the Polaroid user base.

3. Velvia 50 sheet film: Official announcement of discontinuation last summer. Then big protest by the LF Velvia fans (and Tim Parkin and the 'onlandscape' readers), and they started on online petition. Fuji listened. Now Velvia 50 in sheet film is back in the programme.

4. Agfa MCP / MCC paper: Similar situation as with IP: The big fan base encouraged Adox and Inoviscoat to produce the paper again, despite all difficulties.

Cheers, Jan
 
I oftentimes see petitions to bring back film. So I'm wondering, has anything like this every worked? I'm not trying to be pessimistic but I'm genuinely curious of any of these efforts have ever worked in the past. I see this everywhere, like TV shows, for example.

What film/films would we agree upon to beseech the great emulsion coating poobahs to resurrect?

I hereby cast my vote for these three:

Kodak Tech Pan
Kodak Plus-X
Kodak Kodachrome 64

(Nothing but wishful thinking, I know...)
 
3. Velvia 50 sheet film: Official announcement of discontinuation last summer. Then big protest by the LF Velvia fans (and Tim Parkin and the 'onlandscape' readers), and they started on online petition. Fuji listened. Now Velvia 50 in sheet film is back in the programme.

I hadn't heard about this! Thanks for bringing it up.
 
Many wive's tales on success of petitions.

Many wive's tales on success of petitions.

I don't put much stock in the meanderings I see on this thread about how effective petitions are. I my experience I can only recall one true example of a successful petition. It had to do with a ban on "bread slicing" machines and it's recall based on a successful petition.

"1943 U.S. ban on sliced bread

During 1943, U.S. officials imposed a short-lived ban on sliced bread as a wartime conservation measure.[7][8] The ban was ordered by Claude R. Wickard who held the position of Food Administrator, and took effect on January 18, 1943. According to the New York Times, officials explained that "the ready-sliced loaf must have a heavier wrapping than an unsliced one if it is not to dry out." It was also intended to counteract a rise in the price of bread, caused by the Office of Price Administration's authorization of a ten percent increase in flour prices.[9]

In a Sunday radio address on January 24, Mayor LaGuardia, having been petitioned by New York bread producers, suggested that bakeries that had their own bread-slicing machines should be allowed to continue to use them, and on January 26, 1943, a letter appeared in the New York Times from a distraught housewife:


I should like to let you know how important sliced bread is to the morale and saneness of a household. My husband and four children are all in a rush during and after breakfast. Without ready-sliced bread I must do the slicing for toast—two pieces for each one—that's ten. For their lunches I must cut by hand at least twenty slices, for two sandwiches apiece. Afterward I make my own toast. Twenty-two slices of bread to be cut in a hurry![10]

On January 26, however, John F. Conaboy, the New York Area Supervisor of the Food Distribution Administration, warned bakeries, delicatessens, and other stores that were continuing to slice bread to stop, saying that "to protect the cooperating bakeries against the unfair competition of those who continue to slice their own bread... we are prepared to take stern measures if necessary."[11]

On March 8, 1943, the ban was rescinded. Wickard stated that "Our experience with the order, however, leads us to believe that the savings are not as much as we expected, and the War Production Board tells us that sufficient wax paper to wrap sliced bread for four months is in the hands of paper processor and the baking industry.[9]"

To the best of my knowledge and after much research, this is the only practical and viable example of a "petition" actually working in practice as opposed to theory.

With such important issues as this occupying the minds of consumers, I seriously doubt if petitions have actually saved or caused re introduction of such plebeian things as film or film emulsions.????

Plebeian

ple·be·ian (pl-bn)
adj.
1. Of or relating to the common people of ancient Rome: a plebeian magistrate.
2. Of, belonging to, or characteristic of commoners.
3. Unrefined or coarse in nature or manner; common or vulgar: plebeian tastes.
n.
1. One of the common people of ancient Rome.
2. A member of the lower classes.
3. A vulgar or coarse person.
[From Latin plbius, from plbs, plb-, the common people; see pel-1 in Indo-European roots.]
ple·beian·ism n.
ple·beian·ly adv.
 
I don't put much stock in the meanderings I see on this thread about how effective petitions are. I my experience I can only recall one true example of a successful petition. It had to do with a ban on "bread slicing" machines and it's recall based on a successful petition.

"1943 U.S. ban on sliced bread

During 1943, U.S. officials imposed a short-lived ban on sliced bread as a wartime conservation measure.[7][8] The ban was ordered by Claude R. Wickard who held the position of Food Administrator, and took effect on January 18, 1943. According to the New York Times, officials explained that "the ready-sliced loaf must have a heavier wrapping than an unsliced one if it is not to dry out." It was also intended to counteract a rise in the price of bread, caused by the Office of Price Administration's authorization of a ten percent increase in flour prices.[9]

In a Sunday radio address on January 24, Mayor LaGuardia, having been petitioned by New York bread producers, suggested that bakeries that had their own bread-slicing machines should be allowed to continue to use them, and on January 26, 1943, a letter appeared in the New York Times from a distraught housewife:


I should like to let you know how important sliced bread is to the morale and saneness of a household. My husband and four children are all in a rush during and after breakfast. Without ready-sliced bread I must do the slicing for toast—two pieces for each one—that's ten. For their lunches I must cut by hand at least twenty slices, for two sandwiches apiece. Afterward I make my own toast. Twenty-two slices of bread to be cut in a hurry![10]

On January 26, however, John F. Conaboy, the New York Area Supervisor of the Food Distribution Administration, warned bakeries, delicatessens, and other stores that were continuing to slice bread to stop, saying that "to protect the cooperating bakeries against the unfair competition of those who continue to slice their own bread... we are prepared to take stern measures if necessary."[11]

On March 8, 1943, the ban was rescinded. Wickard stated that "Our experience with the order, however, leads us to believe that the savings are not as much as we expected, and the War Production Board tells us that sufficient wax paper to wrap sliced bread for four months is in the hands of paper processor and the baking industry.[9]"

To the best of my knowledge and after much research, this is the only practical and viable example of a "petition" actually working in practice as opposed to theory.

With such important issues as this occupying the minds of consumers, I seriously doubt if petitions have actually saved or caused re introduction of such plebeian things as film or film emulsions.????

Plebeian

ple·be·ian (pl-bn)
adj.
1. Of or relating to the common people of ancient Rome: a plebeian magistrate.
2. Of, belonging to, or characteristic of commoners.
3. Unrefined or coarse in nature or manner; common or vulgar: plebeian tastes.
n.
1. One of the common people of ancient Rome.
2. A member of the lower classes.
3. A vulgar or coarse person.
[From Latin plbius, from plbs, plb-, the common people; see pel-1 in Indo-European roots.]
ple·beian·ism n.
ple·beian·ly adv.

Can facts meander? Jan provided some historically correct ones in his post.

Regards
Brett
 
Hmmm ... thought cloud here

Hmmm ... thought cloud here

Can facts meander? Jan provided some historically correct ones in his post.

Regards
Brett

And the implication being that my facts are less historically correct than Jan's.

I assure you that what I posted is verifiable. The legal documents are public record, and I can create more conversation around a Plebeian Dinner table with mine, than any of the other posters can create around a dinner table unless all the people invited to dinner are all photographers... And how boring would that event be?
 
And the implication being that my facts are less historically correct than Jan's.

I assure you that what I posted is verifiable. The legal documents are public record, and I can create more conversation around a Plebeian Dinner table with mine, than any of the other posters can create around a dinner table unless all the people invited to dinner are all photographers... And how boring would that event be?

You said:

"I don't put much stock in the meanderings I see on this thread about how effective petitions are."

I said:
"Can facts meander? Jan provided some historically correct ones in his post."

I'm not questioning the veracity of the information in your previous post. However I thought we were discussing photography, here? That is after all what it says at the top (Photography General Interest Neat Photo stuff NOT particularly about Rangefinders.).

If you'd like to continue expounding on the historical events surrounding the availability of sliced bread during WWII, please, knock yourself out. I'm sure you'll have an audience of enthralled readers, waiting with bated breath for your next instalment.
Cheers
Brett
 
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