Has Leica alienated photographers?

[brennanphotoguy]

That's fair... but the guys that come into your shop aren't the only types of Pros out there either. There are mainstream, everyday pros that use mainstream equipment and there are artists (and many other types) that may or may not use mainstream equipment. Trends in the industry may affect one type of photographer and not another. For most of us on this thread, what a Pro uses really doesn't matter. What matters is does it work for you and what you want to accomplish. If you are going the artists route, you might not be a pro while you make your most important work. You may only be consider pro if you can actually sell it some form.

This is true. I'm not trying to argue the fact that you can't do pro work with the Leica system, just trying to say that there are things that the other manufacturers are doing that make pro work better/easier than anything Leica has done in the digital world. There are definitely more ways to make money at selling yourself or your work and if you are able to do that with a Leica system then that's awesome, I'd love to be able to do that. I'm simply saying that the amount of people that this is a viable answer is very small.

 

[airfrogusmc]

Reread what I typed. I didn't say I made that much. I said...nevermind. There's nothing I can say at this point that will make any dent in your shielded arguments.

You won't make a dent because I am fully am aware of what works best for me period. That may or may not be right for others. So lets all go out make an image or two today and then share those? Or maybe it's more interesting to try and convince others of the error of their equipment ways? Sadly I got a feeling I know what is going to be the choice.

 

[airfrogusmc]

just trying to say that there are things that the other manufacturers are doing that make pro work better/easier than anything Leica has done in the digital world..

But in this statement lies the error. Those things don't make it easier for me. I have shot with all kinds of different equipment and if the equipment isn't intuitive for the photographer which DSLRs aren't for me and there are others out their like me (I have been shooting all manual for decades) then it doesn't do any of what you say.

The key, and I really know this is hard for some to get their heads around, is finding the equipment that best matches the way you see and work. That is what makes the process easier for each individual and the real individual choice out there is Leica M which may or may not be right for others but it is right for me and the way I see and work.

So I say, for folks like me that don't have to do it for money today or don't have to work in their day jobs, lets get out and make some photographs with the equipment of our choice.

 

[brennanphotoguy]

You won't make a dent because I am fully am aware of what works best for me period. That may or may not be right for others. So lets all go out make an image or two today and then share those? Or maybe it's more interesting to try and convince others of the error of their equipment ways? Sadly I got a feeling I know what is going to be the choice.

I shoot every day. 2-3 rolls weekly unless I've got a job and then it goes up. Which is a fair amount when you consider I work 50 hour weeks and only shoot on my lunch breaks and walks to and from work.

You are terrible at reading, or you just read the parts you want to read and nothing around it.

is finding the equipment that best matches the way you see and work. That is what makes the process easier for each individual and the real individual choice out there is Leica M which may or may not be right for others but it is right for me and the way I see and work.

was answered with,

There are definitely more ways to make money at selling yourself or your work and if you are able to do that with a Leica system then that's awesome, I'd love to be able to do that. I'm simply saying that the amount of people that this is a viable answer is very small.

right above your quote where you selectively pulled a quote from.

 

[:: Mark]

Then why would the even make a camera like the MM, M 262 or the M-D? Those are certainly not cameras for the masses and with cameras like the M-D without all the automation a photographer without some technical skill will be lost.

I suspect that Leica see these variants as pretty much like the more obvious special editions - although photographically they are vastly more useful than ping-pong-bat clad cameras. The lack of automation and difficulty of use is part of the brand image, as are specialisations such as the MM.

When I was first considering using Leica I looked at a lot of photographs taken using various camera and lens combinations. The results were (and still are) incredibly polarised, with some of the absolute best and absolute worst photography that I have ever seen - and surprisingly little middle ground. I think that this reflects the user-base of Leicas today: a small(ish) group of enthusiasts who enjoy the concept and work hard to get excellent results, but a much larger group who use the cameras casually and infrequently at best. I think that Leica's sales/marketing (unsurprisingly) favours the latter group.

BTW, I do not think that sensor cleaning automatically requires a significantly thicker camera - for example, perhaps it would be possible to couple the piezo transducers via the edge of the sensor assembly.

There are also other functional design improvements that surely could be made to improve usability. For example, providing a user-accessible rangefinder calibration mechanism. Needing to send a body+lens on an extended calibration trip to Germany is absurd today, whereas it should be possible to do the same using live-view and a user-accessible mechanical adjustment. But Leica presumably prioritises special editions because that is where they get their money from...

 

[airfrogusmc]

Yeah my reading comprehension can be suspect at best ha ha (sorry I did misread), so then lets all quit worrying about others and what others use and get out and a make an image or two.

 

[airfrogusmc]

I suspect that Leica see these variants as pretty much like the more obvious special editions - although photographically they are vastly more useful than ping-pong-bat clad cameras. The lack of automation and difficulty of use is part of the brand image, as are specialisations such as the MM.

When I was first considering using Leica I looked at a lot of photographs taken using various camera and lens combinations. The results were (and still are) incredibly polarised, with some of the absolute best and absolute worst photography that I have ever seen - and surprisingly little middle ground. I think that this reflects the user-base of Leicas today: a small(ish) group of enthusiasts who enjoy the concept and work hard to get excellent results, but a much larger group who use the cameras casually and infrequently at best. I think that Leica's sales/marketing (unsurprisingly) favours the latter group.

BTW, I do not think that sensor cleaning automatically requires a significantly thicker camera - for example, perhaps it would be possible to couple the piezo transducers via the edge of the sensor assembly.

There are also other functional design improvements that surely could be made to improve usability. For example, providing a user-accessible rangefinder calibration mechanism. Needing to send a body+lens on an extended calibration trip to Germany is absurd today, whereas it should be possible to do the same using live-view and a user-accessible mechanical adjustment. But Leica presumably prioritises special editions because that is where they get their money from...

Actually Mark I think that Leica makes special additions so they can make those great cameras and still make film cameras.

 

[______]

I admit the prices are breathtaking, but generally in life one gets what she or he pays for.

I have never found this to be true. While the best is always expensive, price is no guaranty of quality, and there is a lot of expensive junk out there. Marketers prey on such aphorisms.

 

[______]

If you read carefully, I wrote "generally". I hope you get more exercise than jumping to conclusions. 🙂

I took your "generally" qualifier into account when I responded. In my experience, it is not true that you generally get what you pay for. Your experience may be different than mine, but that doesn't mean I jump to conclusions. It seems that it is you getting the exercise this morning.

And it's guarantee, not guaranty.

I admit I am archaic, but thankfully not pedantic.

 

[mpaniagua]

Do you dont get a better quality prime rib for a higher price than a lower price one? Do you not get a better insurance coverage for a higher fee? I agree you get what you pay for. Then again, maybe what you pay for is not what you expect? If you pay a higher fee for you insurance, you may say "wtf? why so expensive?". Maybe the problem lies with expectations? Leica doesn't make you a better photographer, but it gives you solid, reliable (I'm talking about lenses and film cameras here) and time enduring equipment. If thats what you expect from Leica, yeah, you get what you pay for.



Regards.

 

[jaapv]

I suspect that Leica see these variants as pretty much like the more obvious special editions - although photographically they are vastly more useful than ping-pong-bat clad cameras. The lack of automation and difficulty of use is part of the brand image, as are specialisations such as the MM.

When I was first considering using Leica I looked at a lot of photographs taken using various camera and lens combinations. The results were (and still are) incredibly polarised, with some of the absolute best and absolute worst photography that I have ever seen - and surprisingly little middle ground. I think that this reflects the user-base of Leicas today: a small(ish) group of enthusiasts who enjoy the concept and work hard to get excellent results, but a much larger group who use the cameras casually and infrequently at best. I think that Leica's sales/marketing (unsurprisingly) favours the latter group.

BTW, I do not think that sensor cleaning automatically requires a significantly thicker camera - for example, perhaps it would be possible to couple the piezo transducers via the edge of the sensor assembly.

There are also other functional design improvements that surely could be made to improve usability. For example, providing a user-accessible rangefinder calibration mechanism. Needing to send a body+lens on an extended calibration trip to Germany is absurd today, whereas it should be possible to do the same using live-view and a user-accessible mechanical adjustment. But Leica presumably prioritises special editions because that is where they get their money from...

The lack of sensor cleaning is not just the thickness of the camera but the thin and thus fragile filter array. The risk of shattering the cover glass by the vibrations needed to shake dust off is too high.

 

[jaapv]

Someone had the audacity to suggest posting some photos taken with the new Hasselblad X1D and the moderators were quick to disabuse him of the notion.

That is completely correct. Photographs posted in LUF photoforums must be taken by Leica equipment ever since the forum existed. Most other brand-dedicated forums have similar rules.

 

[______]

That is completely correct. Photographs posted in LUF photoforums must be taken by Leica equipment ever since the forum existed. Most other brand-dedicated forums have similar rules.

You are probably more well versed about that sort of thing than I am as I don't generally participate at brand specific forums; I've just never run into such a rule before.

 

[jaapv]

You are probably more well versed about that sort of thing than I am as I don't generally participate at brand specific forums; I've just never run into such a rule before.

Well, to me it is not really illogical, a Leica forum dedicated to Leica gear, a Hasselblad forum dedicated to Hasselblad gear, etc.

 

[______]

Well, to me it is not really illogical, a Leica forum dedicated to Leica gear, a Hasselblad forum dedicated to Hasselblad gear, etc.

And it promotes gear acquisition. If you want to post a picture of your new MM, you have to buy another Leica to take the photo of it.

 

[brennanphotoguy]

And it promotes gear acquisition. If you want to post a picture of your new MM, you have to buy another Leica to take the photo of it.

Or you can use the Huawei P9 and use the mobile uploader hahaha.

 

[nikonhswebmaster]

That's what I love about this forum: tetchy geezwads throwing their two cents in, whether it's asked for or not. Thanks for your input, and my condolences for you generally not getting what you pay for in your life.

Steve 😀

Have you considered working for Hallmark Greeting Cards?

The sentiments so emotionally moving.

 

[______]

The sentiments so emotionally moving.

I'm still trying to figure out what "geezwad" means so I'll know how badly I've been dissed. A quick Google search is coming up blank. And the Urban Dictionary has no entry.

 

[mpaniagua]

I'm still trying to figure out what "geezwad" means so I'll know how badly I've been dissed. A quick Google search is coming up blank. And the Urban Dictionary has no entry.

I don't know about you but I feel like I been offended, somehow 😕

 

[jaapv]

And it promotes gear acquisition. If you want to post a picture of your new MM, you have to buy another Leica to take the photo of it.

Errr...no. In the technical forums Leica-related images taken with any device are allowed.