Has Leica alienated photographers?

Has Leica alienated photographers?

  • Yes, I feel alienated by Leica's High Prices

    Votes: 170 38.1%

  • Maybe, sometimes yes, sometimes no

    Votes: 86 19.3%

  • No, I want Leica quality and that means Leica prices

    Votes: 122 27.4%

  • YES, I am alienated by Leica targeting bling marketing (late poll addition)

    Votes: 68 15.2%
  • Total voters
    446
Leica cameras and lenses have attracted photographers.

It's their long and uncomprehensive service windows that have alienated photographers.
Who can live with a 2-4 month repair window and no loaner program?

Of course some Leica advocate will write in response that if you "establish a relationship" with Leica this will not be the case.
If you are a pro, you work and expect your vendors to work ....for a living!!... not for a relationship! Relationships are for friends and Lovers !
This concept is favoritism it is not a service model to buy into. It's absurd and serves only the brand and a handfull of their celebrity fanbois.
If Leica wants to attract more photographers the need to provide a service parallel to Canon and Nikon pro services.
 
CameraQuest said:
He is not asking if Posers, Wannabes or Blingstars are alienated by high Leica prices.

This is an important distinction as today's Leica is arguably catering not to photographers but to this 2nd group thanks to such truly incredible
(a carefully chosen exact word) gifts from the photography gods as the Lenny Kravitz pre-brassed LEICA M-P 'CORRESPONDENT' SET...
Click to expand...

The problem with the "Posers, Wannabes or Bling-stars" is that they are not probably not that taken with the "Hunger Games" -- and likely seldom think of a Leica. I live in a very visible city, everyone on the street, and I have seldom seen a Leica Digital M in the hands of "Posers, Wannabes or Bling-stars," the vast majority seem to be older men (yes there have been a few exceptions, Japanese teens).
 
f16sunshine said:
Leica cameras and lenses have attracted photographers.

It's their long and uncomprehensive service windows that have alienated photographers.
Who can live with a 2-4 month repair window and no loaner program?

Of course some Leica advocate will write in response that if you "establish a relationship" with Leica this will not be the case.
If you are a pro, you work and expect your vendors to work ....for a living!!... not for a relationship! Relationships are for friends and Lovers !
This concept is favoritism it is not a service model to buy into. It's absurd and serves only the brand and a handfull of their celebrity fanbois.
If Leica wants to attract more photographers the need to provide a service parallel to Canon and Nikon pro services.
Click to expand...
I have always gotten a loaner without even asking when repair times were long. And I am not even a Pro. In the Pro service it is standard. :rolleyes:
 
photomoof said:
The problem with the "Posers, Wannabes or Bling-stars" is that they are not probably not that taken with the "Hunger Games" -- and likely seldom think of a Leica. I live in a very visible city, everyone on the street, and I have seldom seen a Leica Digital M in the hands of "Posers, Wannabes or Bling-stars," the vast majority seem to be older men (yes there have been a few exceptions, Japanese teens).
Click to expand...

Leica marketing seems to think otherwise with the Lenny Kravitz special.

Kind of like Field of Dreams: "Build it, they will buy."
 
CameraQuest said:
Please note the OP is questioning whether "Photographers" are being alienated by high Leica prices.

He is not asking if Posers, Wannabes or Blingstars are alienated by high Leica prices.

This is an important distinction as today's Leica is arguably catering not to photographers but to this 2nd group thanks to such truly incredible
(a carefully chosen exact word) gifts from the photography gods as the Lenny Kravitz pre-brassed LEICA M-P 'CORRESPONDENT' SET...
Click to expand...

I'm going to agree with these sentiments EXACTLY. My point has been to make the argument about Leica alienating "Photographers" specifically, per OP's original argument. Leica's heritage and cache has all been built on the work of the many professional photographers who used it's gear in the past. Their "street cred" is based on the work of iconic pros. That's why I've addressed the issue from the perspective of someone using Leica as equipment, rather than just an object of desire.

I can totally agree with Roger's argument that at their hearts, all camera brands are actually kept in business by selling to amateurs, as working photographers simply aren't numerous enough to keep anyone in biz. But I do think that the type of amateur Leica is targeting differs, because unlike Canon/Nikon/Sony, who sell stuff like the Rebel line which are aimed squarely at the mass market, Leica does not and will probably never have a product line you can find at your local Costco. Sure, Leica's point and shoots are relatively "accessible" but we all know that soccer moms and dads generally don't buy one of those to take pictures of Junior's birthday. They buy DSLR kits from one of the big names, or increasingly, use their smartphones. Leica clearly has its sights on more exclusive markets. All of which does pull its focus from the needs of actual photographers.

If I'm honest, the non-photographer in me thinks that a gold plated, lizard skinned camera is actually pretty cool. It makes me giggle to imagine a super eccentric billionaire with really weird eyebrows using one to take tasteful nudes of his many mistresses or whatever. And anyone who didn't think that the Jony Ive-designed one of a kind RED M wasn't a thing of beauty must have been blind. :D While I don't get the appeal in a prebrassed camera, I don't buy "distressed" jeans with holes, tears, and bleaching all over them either because the whole concept kind of escapes me. But I can totally concede that others might find this cool.

And whatever my opinions might be about these things, it seems to be working for Leica as a business model so my opinions amount to an uninformed, unqualified opinion about whether or not this is "right" or "wrong" for Leica as a brand. Come to think of it, unless any of us know how Leica's bottom line actually works, I don't think there can be anything other than our own opinions about the matter. I mean come on guys, they've got to pay for all those freebie M9 sensor replacements somehow. If a bunch of oil Sheikhs and Chinese billionaires are gonna help fund my M9's CCD, I'm totally OK with that. :cool:

But that still doesn't stop me from feeling a little like Leica is giving me the finger just a little bit when it puts effort into its "fashion accessory" cameras. My rational mind knows that the situation isn't exactly that simple. But its just how I feel.
 
jaapv said:
I have always gotten a loaner without even asking when repair times were long. And I am not even a Pro. In the Pro service it is standard. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Come on Japp.... you are almost a Leica employee !! :angel: Of course YOU get a loaner :)
This is exactly the "relationship" situation I am describing.
There is no pro service like CPS or NPS with Leica.
With Leica and service...You're either in or your out! (out of luck)
 
jsrockit said:
There is nothing better in this world than spending the money you make on something you love. Cameras are not investments for most of us, but they are a damn fine way to spend your cash... unless you don't like photography.
Click to expand...

I have it on good authority from a shoe store owner in the Bronx that you in fact don't like photography.
 
I hope they have good full length mirrors in those Leica stores...
Got to try on that new M...and see for myself..
Make sure it gets on well with my alligator belt and lizard shoes..and my ostrich hat...
And tilts to the exact right degree..when I walk down the blvd..
 
photomoof said:
OK, it is not as funny as this one:

attachment.php


But seriously? The "Correspondent?"

And I remain embarrassed, having bought two Leica M6 TTL Millenium sets. Let he who is without sin -- etc etc.
Click to expand...

Some of the Leica sets like the M6 TTL Millenium and the LHSA sets are really well thought out and well done.

Its just the silly ones that make me want to barf on my Hermes hanky.
 
f16sunshine said:
Come on Japp.... you are almost a Leica employee !! :angel: Of course YOU get a loaner :)
This is exactly the "relationship" situation I am describing.
There is no pro service like CPS or NPS with Leica.
With Leica and service...You're either in or your out! (out of luck)
Click to expand...

There is a pro service: if you register as a pro with Leica CS Germany beforehand through the excellent Andrea Frankl you will get pro service.
I am not sure whether Leica USA has the same system.
However, Leica certainly offers expedited and express service at a cost, which comes down to the same thing.
 
I guess you never see many press photographers nowadays using rangefinders, like Leica, as back in the 50-ties:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-TRv_x-5_U...ess+photographers+covering+the+Korean+War.jpg

Now it more looks like this:

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/i...ews/photographers-press-media-journalists.jpg

You can call it alienation of photographers, but I guess many photographers today use a more versatile tool than a Leica. I do not think the cost is the major factor, high end Nikons also cost a lot of money.

I think the reason is:
- usability in different assignments
- pro-service
- quality
- acceptance in the community of users
- tradition

I myself recently bought a M-240, I own a M9 since earlier and several analog Leicas. I am not a dentist, but I guess you can call me a wealthy amateur (I am an old university professor in engineering).:)

I like Leica of sentimental reasons, I have "always" owned one. I also like that it is a German camera with longer product cycles than CaNikon and that it is a company that take care of its customers. If they had left us with-out help with the M9-sensors, I would not have bought the M-240! And I also like the strong Leica-community, like the Leica friends here!

If some-one buys luxury versions of Leicas as "jewelry", I do not care. If professional photographers use the the tool, fine for them, but it will not influence me.
 
Borge H said:
. . . If some-one buys luxury versions of Leicas as "jewelry", I do not care. If professional photografers use the the tool, fine for them, but it will not influence me.
Click to expand...
Quite. The least edifying posts in this thread are from rich people expressing disgust about how even richer people spend their money.

The arrogance of their subtext is extraordinary: "I am a real photographer, therefore I buy only 'ordinary' new Leicas." Surely some of them must have the self-awareness to see that this is exactly the same argument as "Only snobs buy Leicas."

People buy Leicas for all sort of reasons, including taking pictures. Some go without other things to buy a Leica; some buy them as toys; some (God help them) imagine that they are status symbols, not realizing that a "status symbol" is typically a luxury bought by someone who can't afford it and has no real use for it other than as a status symbol.

My wife Frances summed up the thread perfectly. She asked me "How did it start?" I told her the title of the thread. She said, "Ah... They alienated photographers by making cameras?"

Cheers,

R.
 
Roger Hicks said:
Quite. The least edifying posts in this thread are from rich people expressing disgust about how even richer people spend their money.
Click to expand...

Disgust with runaway wealth in cities like NYC, is really another discussion. But.

Perhaps "alienated" is a poor choice of words?

Long ago I just lost interest in owning a Leica, the aforementioned Millenniums were my last venture into Leica ownership. Price was a very minor element, but honestly if I could make money using a Leica I would buy one tomorrow. As a pro camera it is not really that pricey when compared to other pro equipment like RED.

I don't really care what others buy, don't understand their choices always, but if you want a Leica buy one. Personally I just don't want to lug any camera around these days, for casual snaps.

A lot of people shoot photos to relax, or enjoy nature for instance, if owning a really nice camera increases that enjoyment for them why would anyone possibly care.
 
When I had my business I used for film Hasselblad thinking they would last until I retire. Going digital in 2004 I bought Canon. After discussing with my coach, I completely went digital capture in 2005.

It wasn't until I retired that I bought Leica film only and only used. I don't think of Leica alienating folks but some may differ.
 
Roger Hicks said:
...



My wife Frances summed up the thread perfectly. She asked me "How did it start?" I told her the title of the thread. She said, "Ah... They alienated photographers by making cameras?"



Cheers,



R.
Click to expand...


That is by far the most insightful comment I've read not only in this discussion but in this whole genre of discussions!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
After reading all this I remain wondering:

1) how to register at Leica as a pro Dentist, and
2) if Leica has alienated photographer's wives.

Roland.
 
Roger Hicks said:
...
My wife Frances summed up the thread perfectly.
She asked me "How did it start?" I told her the title of the thread. She said, "Ah... They alienated photographers by making cameras?"

Cheers,
R.
Click to expand...

LOL, good one there, congratulations on your better half Roger ;).
One more typical example that the female part of the population usually has e refreshingly different perspective on things.

And as a sidenote from a non professional photographer:
I value the camera by the pictures I have taken with it so far.

From this point of view, the actual use, my MM is invaluable for me.
And I do not make any money from my photography, just enjoying it.
 
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