Have any of you gotten a BFA in photography?

[andredossantos]

I have a major in debt and a minor income.

 

[Paul Luscher]

"Have you gotten a BFA in photography...?"

No, but judging by the reactions to some of my photos, I've gotten a BFD in photography...

 

[Darkhorse]

I have a pretty basic BFA, it's not even offered any more after the dissolution of the Ontario Academic Credit system. But it's a BA nonetheless. The only real advantage it's given me is to look pretty on a job application. I also have a graphic design diploma from a mediocre design school.

I do work as a photographer, but I found a very, verrrrry specific niche for myself. I enjoy photography more outside the 9-5.

I do wonder about my future prospects, and photography-wise I don't see much outside wedding photography and what I'm already doing. Maybe city-planning? There was a huge abandoned block in a local strip mall, and I said to my wife a year ago "An LA Fitness would be perfect there". Lo and behold, yesterday we drove past the lot and saw a "LA FITNESS OPENING 2011" sign. I don't know - I do really, really, wonder about future occupations though.

 

[JayGannon]

You have no clue what you're talking about. The young man who asked our advice is in North America, you are not. Conditions here are much different than in other parts of the world. Those of us who told him how it is have not failed, given up, or any of the other nasty lies you've written to make yourself look superior. I have a feeling that slamming some of us was the primary intent of your post, rather than helping the young man who started this thread. That's unethical and irresponsible.

I've hardly given up; I earn my living entirely from creative work. Had I given up or lacked creativity, you wouldn't see me here. As for resourcefulness, well some are born with resources, others aren't. You work with what you have. I lived several years in Santa Fe, one of the great centers of the arts in the USA. 95% of the people there who called themselves professional artists lived off trust funds or wealthy parents; they did not earn a living from their art but they appeared successful at first glance. I got to know a lot of those people. Most of my classmates from art school have given up. They do not do art anymore. I didn't give up, but it took me a long time and cost me a lot in health to persevere with my dream. If the OP is willing to do that, its fine...but he should know what he will really face so that he can make an informed decision about his future. Lying to him is not helping him.

So essentially the advice I would take from this is emigrate from the US to a country where it wont cost you your health in order to persue your career. Somewhere where there is artist support and encouragment from society and funding sources.
So no not lying, just presenting the reality of pretty much the rest of the world, a world where you can move to, nobody can stop him from leaving the US to live/study....

 

[jsrockit]

It's hardly an academic subject. As Darkhorse says, the only use for a BFA is to look pretty on a job application.

Cheers,

R.

It certainly can be an academic subject... it just depends on how the teacher approaches things. I've taken classes in the "science" of photography, which basically was a physics course, and when you get into concepts within the art school world, some schools require you to read a wide variety of materials that are not focused on techniques, aesthetcis, or art history. People at my work who just assume that you go to art school and draw all day. It couldn't be farther from the truth.

 

[Roger Hicks]

It certainly can be an academic subject... it just depends on how the teacher approaches things. I've taken classes in the "science" of photography, which basically was a physics course, and when you get into concepts within the art school world, some schools require you to read a wide variety of materials that are not focused on techniques, aesthetcis, or art history. People at my work who just assume that you go to art school and draw all day. It couldn't be farther from the truth.

That was my point, really. Art qua art is not an academic subject, and the idea of being judged on your pictures to get an MFA is risible (de gustibus), etc. In order to make it into a pseudo-academic subject, you have to introduce more and more subjects that are at best tangentially related to the actual creation of art.

Cheers,

R.

 

[jasonhupe]

Wow, great post so far.
I have a BFA in photography from RIT in New York. A really good photo school. This conversation could take years to discuss.
Do I regret doing it. NO
Would I do it again knowing what I know now: probably not
Wold I know what I know now having not gone: No
So you see, you dont know until you go. I went through an advertising route not fine art or PJ. Now I do weddings, it is enjoyable, I get to shoot my way, and clients pay me quite nice for my work. I do have a handful of friends who live in NYC who travel around the globe assisting. they love it, have a blast, and make decent money. But they started with some money. As another poster said I met my wife while at college through a good friend/roomate and if anything, that made the entire debt, all 60,000 of it, worth every penny. Good luck with your choice and work. It takes real courage to pursue all careers these days.

 

[Sparrow]

It certainly can be an academic subject... it just depends on how the teacher approaches things. I've taken classes in the "science" of photography, which basically was a physics course, and when you get into concepts within the art school world, some schools require you to read a wide variety of materials that are not focused on techniques, aesthetcis, or art history. People at my work who just assume that you go to art school and draw all day. It couldn't be farther from the truth.

more's the pity, it's about time they started teaching the basics actually

 

[swoop]

I went to a community college for an Associates in Photography before going on to a city college to get my Bachelors in English with a Journalism Minor. No fancy expensive degree. I applied for my job and didn't know anyone there. No networking involved. I only had 3 years of experience. I don't think any one thing got me my job. I think it was just the right combination of a lot of things.

 

[Jamie123]

First of all, don't listen to the ''don't do it unless your parents are wealthy" comments. Wealth is a relative term. Your parents don't have to own a yacht in order to be able to support you a little when times are hard. You know your and your parents' circumstances best so you need to figure out whether or not there's a support system in case things don't turn out as expected.

That being said, you also have to keep in mind that, while the thought of leading a modest artist's life might seem romantic at the age of 17, you might think differently about it by the time you're 25. If you have people who love you and have the means to help you you're probably not going to starve but chances are you won't be able to enjoy much either.

You said you don't want to be a wedding photographer but you didn't say what kind of photographer you want to be.

 

[deirdre]

So, you advise him to join the ranks of the un-hirable? Competition for jobs is fierce and only getting more so. Companies in the past would hire someone with a bachelors degree no matter what it was in, except for specialized fields like nursing or engineering that required specific degrees. Today, thats not true anymore.

I don't have a BFA in Photography, but I do have a degree in creative writing. I also have thirty-five years of software development experience. You'd think that the thirty-five years would trump the major, but, weirdly, it does not.

The fact that my degree's in another field has been used to filter me out more than once. Even with an MS in Comp Sci, there are some companies where I'm simply not hirable because my BA's in another field.

Were I to do it all over again, I'd do it your way: double major. At the time, I didn't as I was on a low-residency "just finish the damn thing" degree program that didn't offer any technical options, and that has probably cost me a quarter mil. Not kidding.

 

[JayGannon]

I should add that SF has bus drivers and cops making in excess of $200,000/yr. That's where the tax money goes.

No see your just spreading BS, one driver made that and he was a driving instructor not a common driver as well as a tactical driving instructor to SWAT/Prison service drivers.

500/mo for 2xT1's? What possible need do you have for that, and if you do you would get much better value from renting an OC-3 fibre and combingin it with VOIP.

There is a difference between not choosing to run a tight business and not being able to.

 

[PKR]

No see your just spreading BS, one driver made that and he was a driving instructor not a common driver as well as a tactical driving instructor to SWAT/Prison service drivers.

500/mo for 2xT1's? What possible need do you have for that, and if you do you would get much better value from renting an OC-3 fibre and combingin it with VOIP.

There is a difference between not choosing to run a tight business and not being able to.

There is no fiber in our area. The nearest CEV is within T1 copper service to us. We have 80 pair in the com-room. Many clients want fast service while working. We have had as many as 20 people on line at the same time moving images.

As for the city payroll. You can find a list of the highest paid employees posted yearly. The highest paid cop last year got about $500,000.. and he wasn't the Chief. I have a friend who is a city electrician, he makes over $200K/yr

 

[SamStewart]

I dont know what is going on in here any more....
I'm not planning to be a welder that for sure.

I think I still am going to try to get into school for my BFA in photo. If I go through a year of it and decided I am unhappy, I can hope that I can transfer credits to something different and then go from there.

With jobs, I'm not expecting to get a BFA in photo and be handed a job in a studio after I am handed my BFA, I expect to have to go through more schooling or work hard for it.

I would be going to an art school to learn the more conceptual side of photography, thats something I dont know if I could teach myself very well.

Thanks for all the repsonses, just dont kill one another.

 

[JayGannon]

There is no fiber in our area. The nearest ECV is within T1 copper service to us. We have 80 pair in the com-room. Many clients want fast service while working. We have had as many as 20 people on line at the same time moving images.

As for the city payroll. You can find a list of the highest paid employees posted yearly. The highest paid cop last year got about $500,000.. and he wasn't the Chief. I have a friend who is a city electrician, he makes over $200K/yr

Ok but if you ahve 20 clients working simultaneously then your hardly an aerage photograhy studio, in fact you'd be considered very large, and your income would reflect your expenses, larger costs more but more income so more potential profit.
Your situation is hardly representative of a small photo studio with one or two photographers wrking out of it.
As for the city payroll, supply and demand, the American dream etc. I guarantee you very few European workers get figures like that for trades outside of hughly technical specialities (Nuclear grade welder, HV installation engineer)!

 

[PKR]

Ok but if you ahve 20 clients working simultaneously then your hardly an aerage photograhy studio, in fact you'd be considered very large, and your income would reflect your expenses, larger costs more but more income so more potential profit.
Your situation is hardly representative of a small photo studio with one or two photographers wrking out of it.
As for the city payroll, supply and demand, the American dream etc. I guarantee you very few European workers get figures like that for trades outside of hughly technical specialities (Nuclear grade welder, HV installation engineer)!

That would be one client with 20 people on site .. Microsoft.

Several photographers work out of the studio. It's also rented to cover expenses. I have no idea what people are paid in NY or in Europe. The city's payroll is public knowledge.

I'm far form being rich. I don't make what a city blue color employee makes. I pay 10 x the taxes a city worker pays/income. This is new, as this wasn't the case when I started the business. This environment has come in the last 15-20 years. I thought about moving and starting over in the 80s when clients began to leave the area. Foolishly, I stayed.

 

[JayGannon]

I'm far form being rich. I don't make what a city blue color employee makes. I pay 10 x the taxes a city worker pays/income. This is new, as this wasn't the case when I started the business. This environment has come in the last 15-20 years. I thought about moving and starting over in the 80s when clients began to leave the area. Foolishly, I stayed.

Well your business may pay taxes but you dont unless your earning 10x their salary.. and yif you are you really need a better accountant!But yeah thats the choice that people make in going into business.. any business. I'm sorry but as someone who also runs my own business (2 if fact) I just cant sympathize, if your costs are blowing you out of the water then its time to downsize, if not then you should be in profit surely, and living a good healthy life doing what you want to do? If not then why would you continue to do it?

 

[samuelphoto]

As for the city payroll. You can find a list of the highest paid employees posted yearly. The highest paid cop last year got about $500,000.. and he wasn't the Chief. I have a friend who is a city electrician, he makes over $200K/yr

Well, those days are numbered. How many years until California defaults on their debt or pension obligations or starts firing public workers in massive waves to reduce liabilities? Or all 3? With Jerry Brown back in control, I'd say less than 10, maybe less than 5. I know, this seems rather off topic, but these workers will soon be an invalid basis for comparison.

 

[PKR]

Well, those days are numbered. How many years until California defaults on their debt or pension obligations or starts firing public workers in massive waves to reduce liabilities? Or all 3? With Jerry Brown back in control, I'd say less than 10, maybe less than 5. I know, this seems rather off topic, but these workers will soon be an invalid basis for comparison.

Maybe.. Jerry took a lot of union money to fight Megs 120 million. These people are all union employees. The thing I don't like seeing is bus drivers being paid more then fire fighters. This city is crazier than the rest of the state. Hair-boy, our mayor is now Lt. Gov. He couldn't deal with the unions or keep costs down or stay sober.. now he's at state level. There is a school across the bay, in Oakland where the schools cafeteria employees are being paid much more than the teachers.. another good contract for the cafeteria workers..

enough..

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

Well, those days are numbered. How many years until California defaults on their debt or pension obligations or starts firing public workers in massive waves to reduce liabilities? Or all 3? With Jerry Brown back in control, I'd say less than 10, maybe less than 5. I know, this seems rather off topic, but these workers will soon be an invalid basis for comparison.

The problem in places like San Francisco is that the cost of housing has gotten so extreme that people have to earn those outrageously high salaries just to survive. That in turn bankrupts government and makes life hard for private business too because business and government both have to pay way too much for employees who simply cannot afford to live on normal middle class incomes in a city where an average house costs half a million dollars. Where I live now, banks won't loan you more than 3 times your annual income for a mortgage. Middle class people here earn $40,000 to $60,000 a year, so average houses cost $90,000-$150,000. The rich here live in half a million dollar homes, in SF the middle class does....so 'middle class' means earning far more than what it does in the midwest and most other parts of the country.