robert blu
quiet photographer
Yes, at the end what is important is that Leica stay in business. It's true.
robert
Have Leica bokeh workshops jumped the shark?
- Thread starter Huss
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Yes, at the end what is important is that Leica stay in business. It's true.
robert
airfrogusmc
Veteran
The way I look at it there are so many so-called gurus out on the workshop tours, many claiming to have all kinds of secrets, and for a little $$ they will reveal those secrets when we all know all parts of photography really have no secrets. The secret is just knowledge. The ability to truly see is no secret. It is a journey and in many cases a very long journey. There really are no shortcuts as we all know.
Funny, when I was in college and we had a guest speaker come to our school suddenly everyone had become many me's of that person. Why shouldn't Leica try and get their piece of the pie? If they go under being better, is that really better? There are some that post here who probably think that. Lotsa Leica bashing from usually the same folks. There are plenty of cameras out there that don't work that well for me but I'm sure there are some out there who those cameras work well with. ROCK ON....Whatever gets someone making photographs. Even cat photographs with great bokeh ha ha though I personally tend to be more in line with Evans on this, though not as narrow.
"Photography is not cute cats, nor nudes, motherhood or arrangements of manufactured products. Under no circumstances it is anything ever anywhere near a beach." - Walker Evans
So which other camera companies are in line with your or my philosophy when it comes to photography? Kinda hard to tell most of the others that are on the gadget go-round apart. Well Leica M certainly comes the closest by what they produce as a product to the way I see and work.
My father said to me when I was young "always listen to what people say but really pay attention to what they do. It is their actions that always speak the truth." Leica's cameras like the MM, M-D, M10 M7, etc in my opinion is their truth.
Funny, when I was in college and we had a guest speaker come to our school suddenly everyone had become many me's of that person. Why shouldn't Leica try and get their piece of the pie? If they go under being better, is that really better? There are some that post here who probably think that. Lotsa Leica bashing from usually the same folks. There are plenty of cameras out there that don't work that well for me but I'm sure there are some out there who those cameras work well with. ROCK ON....Whatever gets someone making photographs. Even cat photographs with great bokeh ha ha though I personally tend to be more in line with Evans on this, though not as narrow.
"Photography is not cute cats, nor nudes, motherhood or arrangements of manufactured products. Under no circumstances it is anything ever anywhere near a beach." - Walker Evans
So which other camera companies are in line with your or my philosophy when it comes to photography? Kinda hard to tell most of the others that are on the gadget go-round apart. Well Leica M certainly comes the closest by what they produce as a product to the way I see and work.
My father said to me when I was young "always listen to what people say but really pay attention to what they do. It is their actions that always speak the truth." Leica's cameras like the MM, M-D, M10 M7, etc in my opinion is their truth.
Phil_F_NM
Camera hacker
Now they need a "Brick walls, Peeling paint" workshop.
You hear that Leica? If you use that idea, I want a brand new M10 or ME262 or M1 Abrahms or whatever you're calling your cameras and I want the newest Noctilux hung on it. So I can sell it all, pay for the repair of my cracked molar, do some much needed work on my car, fly my folks in for a family reunion and buy a bunch of film to shoot while they're here.
Phil Forrest
You hear that Leica? If you use that idea, I want a brand new M10 or ME262 or M1 Abrahms or whatever you're calling your cameras and I want the newest Noctilux hung on it. So I can sell it all, pay for the repair of my cracked molar, do some much needed work on my car, fly my folks in for a family reunion and buy a bunch of film to shoot while they're here.
Phil Forrest
Huss
Veteran
well setting up bokeh workshops is a better investment for the company than spending the money to hire an extra tech to help with customer service issues.
Will Leica lend me a camera for the bokeh class as mine is still waiting to be repaired?
Will Leica lend me a camera for the bokeh class as mine is still waiting to be repaired?
Alberti
Well-known
Well, it took a long time as far as I can see to start optimising lenses for that specific use.
In the last decade or more everything went to lines per mm and detail/resolving power, and while owners like the 50mm APO, others can't afford them.
The quest for smooth bokeh with a real flat out-of-focus blob, saturated colors and including reinstatement of a really smooth diaphragm - not a crude 5 or six blade one, for me that is a new direction I welcome.
Of course, to show it off there must be some intro event.
I do not of course welcome another series of lenses with Vuitton/Rolls Royce price tags.
In the last decade or more everything went to lines per mm and detail/resolving power, and while owners like the 50mm APO, others can't afford them.
The quest for smooth bokeh with a real flat out-of-focus blob, saturated colors and including reinstatement of a really smooth diaphragm - not a crude 5 or six blade one, for me that is a new direction I welcome.
Of course, to show it off there must be some intro event.
I do not of course welcome another series of lenses with Vuitton/Rolls Royce price tags.
roscoetuff
Well-known
Isn't the "Leica ain't any good bit" out of date and even inaccurate? Don't they own Swiss-made ALPA... which makes some of the really top end stuff? Now THAT stuff is expensive and makes a Leica M-10 or whatever look dirt cheap. Wouldn't you love to shoot one with a Phase One anchromatic back? Sure. But what do they make... 2 or 3 a year? And you can get started on a 2nd home with what they want for those puppies. My priorities and means ain't there perhaps, but I wish them well all the same.
If I weren't having fun with the stuff I have, maybe I'd be more sympathetic to the bile. As it stands.... I say more power to them. More power to their purchasers. Thank you for keeping the gears working, Leica humming, and an iconic company that still sells film cameras around. I hope those who step up and buy this stuff have as much if not more fun with their gear than I'm having. Might be hard though 'cause I'm having a lot of fun! And may those folks who're kind enough to help support an avocation I enjoy will help keep all this infrastructure around another decade or two long enough for me to squeeze out my last shots. May they even make photos that inspire the rest of us mere mortals. Go team!
But maybe it's not Leica that stirs the ire and resentment, but some of the smarmy connoisseurs running around putting on these workshops? Yep... I get it. But hey, the dudes are just trying to make a living. If someone wants to pay someone to attend a workshop on "How to chew gum while shooting a Leica..." more power to them.
If I weren't having fun with the stuff I have, maybe I'd be more sympathetic to the bile. As it stands.... I say more power to them. More power to their purchasers. Thank you for keeping the gears working, Leica humming, and an iconic company that still sells film cameras around. I hope those who step up and buy this stuff have as much if not more fun with their gear than I'm having. Might be hard though 'cause I'm having a lot of fun! And may those folks who're kind enough to help support an avocation I enjoy will help keep all this infrastructure around another decade or two long enough for me to squeeze out my last shots. May they even make photos that inspire the rest of us mere mortals. Go team!
But maybe it's not Leica that stirs the ire and resentment, but some of the smarmy connoisseurs running around putting on these workshops? Yep... I get it. But hey, the dudes are just trying to make a living. If someone wants to pay someone to attend a workshop on "How to chew gum while shooting a Leica..." more power to them.
roscoetuff
Well-known
Anyone wanna help host a "Leica Lens Cap Workshop" 😉
I'd say you make a 3-day event.
I'd say you make a 3-day event.
daveleo
what?
The most entertaining threads always include the word "Leica".
Lots of disagreement but somehow, civil and (I already said this in the previous sentence) entertaining.🙂
FWIW, I will not be attending the bokeh seminar - have too many other self-indulgent toys to buy.
EDIT: did they jump the shark? .... long ago.
Lots of disagreement but somehow, civil and (I already said this in the previous sentence) entertaining.🙂
FWIW, I will not be attending the bokeh seminar - have too many other self-indulgent toys to buy.
EDIT: did they jump the shark? .... long ago.
ptpdprinter
Veteran
I think those are already given at the LHSA annual meetings.
Huss
Veteran
Little known fact - Henry Winkler is a Leica ambassador.
f16sunshine
Moderator
MCTuomey
Veteran
Probably not. You could move to Canon, get your repaired gear back in 4 days, and not miss the bokeh class.
C'mon, what well-heeled leicaphile has only one body?
ptpdprinter
Veteran
This seems to be the real reason Leica owners generally don't get too exercised over nine month repair times.
Huss
Veteran
1. Canon does not repair Leica gear
b. Only Leica lenses have bokeh.
iii. This why Leica makes them in two different colours - silver and black. Can you get that crummy Nikon D850 in different finishes? No. Anyway, it makes it easy for us Leicaphiles to remember which one is broken.
ptpdprinter
Veteran
Another rimshot. 🙂
MCTuomey
Veteran
True, but I was suggesting tongue-in-cheek that you switch over to Canon gear, then your repair times would improve, and you could still make the class. Of course, you'd be shooting Canon gear which might cause you a few self-conscious moments in said Leica class until you indicated you had no choice due to lack of a working Leica body ...
I had no idea Canon had no bokeh. Which, now that you mention it, perhaps explains why Canon doesn't offer any bokeh classes.
css9450
Veteran
No, you're thinking of Zen. Only Leica lenses have Zen (seriously - I read that here on the forum!).
Huss said:
That's sort of the modern equivalent of a photographer using a brightly-colored strap on his "color" camera body, and a plain black or gray one on his "B&W" body.
css9450
Veteran
Perhaps it was when they discontinued their top-of-the-line camera in favor of a retro, less-featured model. It saved the company, you know.
airfrogusmc
Veteran
You could get 500 C/Ms in silver and black. I had both. A pro never has just one body and usually more than two. Leave out the sensor recalls and I had a lot more issues with my Canons than I have had with my Leica's same time frame. The one thing I do wish Leica would address and I have heard rumors that they are working on a pro program like CPS is the service. I was a CPS member off and on since the late 1970s and I was really spoiled with Canon having a center near me in Itasca but I still prefer my Ms by a lot over Canon. That's why I dumped all the Canon gear over 2 years ago and never looked back.
zuiko85
Veteran
I was reading the blurb on that site for Leica Stores and at first misread "...insider-tips," as 'hipster-tips'. Glad I reread the line.
Although I have a very limited Leica M setup I'm certainly not a fan boy of the brand. Even so, I find it oddly comforting that they are still in business. I mean, who else could get away with building the MA, a fully mechanical, all manual rangefinder without a built-in meter in this day and age. I personally cannot afford Leica (a used body, yes, the lenses are out of reach) so I'm not their market for new equipment. But that could be true for what, maybe 90% of this forum's members? But I'm still glad they have survived.
Although I have a very limited Leica M setup I'm certainly not a fan boy of the brand. Even so, I find it oddly comforting that they are still in business. I mean, who else could get away with building the MA, a fully mechanical, all manual rangefinder without a built-in meter in this day and age. I personally cannot afford Leica (a used body, yes, the lenses are out of reach) so I'm not their market for new equipment. But that could be true for what, maybe 90% of this forum's members? But I'm still glad they have survived.
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