back alley
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i look around the classfieds here and elsewhere and think to myself...these prices are crazy!!
i know that with so many digital cameras now accepting m mount lenses that they are in demand all over again...but why are they so expensive...and not just leica brand lenses...cv, rollie, old lenses and new!
do you think this will continue? or have we peaked?
i know that with so many digital cameras now accepting m mount lenses that they are in demand all over again...but why are they so expensive...and not just leica brand lenses...cv, rollie, old lenses and new!
do you think this will continue? or have we peaked?
S.H.
Picture taker
I don't know if it will continue, but most old lenses are by definition not produced anymore. No new supply (a a small number of them lost/broken each year), steady or even increasing demand...
And quite a lot of people do not want to pay a qualified repairman, and try to tinker with the gear. Some are wise, some just use WD40, lighter fluid, ... More and more dubious/broken gear on the market.
And quite a lot of people do not want to pay a qualified repairman, and try to tinker with the gear. Some are wise, some just use WD40, lighter fluid, ... More and more dubious/broken gear on the market.
Jockos
Well-known
The prices won't go down until the recession is over. Some vintage lenses like 'lux pre-asph e46 and apo-cron, will still fetch insane prices, while more common lenses will go down a bit.
All new lenses will drop a bit too, unless the production stays low (Leica).
All new lenses will drop a bit too, unless the production stays low (Leica).
karlori
Digital Refugee
They better not, as I have quite a sum of money invested towards a set of -luxes and -crons...
I have seen local sales of m42 lenses go for 2-3times their usual going rates in the last few months ...
I think the price hike will not stop as more and more bodies are able to accept the legacy gems and less and less of the said lenses are available on the market.
I have seen local sales of m42 lenses go for 2-3times their usual going rates in the last few months ...
I think the price hike will not stop as more and more bodies are able to accept the legacy gems and less and less of the said lenses are available on the market.
Mackinaw
Think Different
Probably not. As Leica raises the prices on their lenses, they drag everything else up with them. The "high tide raise all boats" phenomena.
Jim B.
Jim B.
dave lackey
Veteran
Unfortunately, when (and it will eventually happen, just not soon) the economies worldwide pick up, we will see inflation like never before. Lens prices will not likely be going down ever.
Historically, lenses have always been a much better "investment" than cameras which always tend to go down in value, but not lenses!
Historically, lenses have always been a much better "investment" than cameras which always tend to go down in value, but not lenses!
noimmunity
scratch my niche
Now that photography has become much more generalized than ever before, everybody is looking for some way to distinguish his or her photographs from the other fellow. In lieu of unique creative vision, unique gear (which may contribute to vision but is not a prerequisite by any means) commands greater and greater attention. I don't think prices will come down. Currency valuation however is likely to undergo drastic change.
I just ordered one of the Japan CLE version 90/4 Rokkors from KEH. At $265 for an EXC-rated lens, it's probably US$100 more than it would have been 5-6, or maybe even 3-4 years ago, but it sure was a bargain by today's standards.
I just ordered one of the Japan CLE version 90/4 Rokkors from KEH. At $265 for an EXC-rated lens, it's probably US$100 more than it would have been 5-6, or maybe even 3-4 years ago, but it sure was a bargain by today's standards.
NLewis
Established
There are a limited number of classic cameras out there, especially the german ones (Leica, Rollei, Hasselblad). However, there are a growing number of potential classic camera buyers, especially in places like China, Russia and India. They tend to follow in the footsteps of the Japanese and Korean pattern. Many of them probably never put more than a few rolls through them. Lenses that are compatible with cameras today (especially Leica) will continue to get high prices.
It is still a good time to get classic Japanese gear, for which there is way more supply and not as much interest. Nikon FM, FE, F2 for example, and AI glass. The Nikon F has already had a big jump in price I think, from the $150 range for a body and lens to more like $450.
Large format gear seems to be getting a little cheaper today. I think a lot of large format shooters are moving to digital, which will probably accelerate with the release of the D800. 36mp has approximately the same resolution as 4x5 in real-world (not testbench) shooting.
The whopping bargain I see is the Mamiya RZ67 system. These are still sold new for about $4500 for the body and $2500 per lens. I bought a body in EXC condition and three lenses in EXC+ for $725. The lenses are tippy-top quality. The 50mm ULD, for example, has 15 elements in 11 groups! Possibly the most complex prime I've ever seen. This is basically a tripod queen, though, definitely not a walkaround camera although you can handhold it for brief periods.
It is still a good time to get classic Japanese gear, for which there is way more supply and not as much interest. Nikon FM, FE, F2 for example, and AI glass. The Nikon F has already had a big jump in price I think, from the $150 range for a body and lens to more like $450.
Large format gear seems to be getting a little cheaper today. I think a lot of large format shooters are moving to digital, which will probably accelerate with the release of the D800. 36mp has approximately the same resolution as 4x5 in real-world (not testbench) shooting.
The whopping bargain I see is the Mamiya RZ67 system. These are still sold new for about $4500 for the body and $2500 per lens. I bought a body in EXC condition and three lenses in EXC+ for $725. The lenses are tippy-top quality. The 50mm ULD, for example, has 15 elements in 11 groups! Possibly the most complex prime I've ever seen. This is basically a tripod queen, though, definitely not a walkaround camera although you can handhold it for brief periods.
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
I'm going to offer a contrary view here. Most of these lenses are NOT rare, and the demand for them really is not that great. Of the millions of amateur and professional photographers in the world, how many own an M8 or M9 and how many, really, are using M-mount lenses on other digital cameras with adapters? Tiny percentage.
If you look around, the price of used goods of all sorts have gone up dramatically in the last few years. Used cars are outrageously priced now. I bought a car last summer, and everyone in Fort Wayne was trying to sell junkers with 180,000 miles for seven and eight thousand dollars. I'm talking common mid-priced cars like Fords and Chevys, nothing rare or expensive when new. A few yrs ago, such cars were two or three thousand dollars here in Indiana.
Its the economy. With so many out of work and so many working people earning far less then the actual cost of living, anyone selling some used thing is trying to turn lead into gold. Lens prices are driven today by Ebay, and a few sellers on there started doubling and tripling prices and offering things as buy-it-now only at these prices, which made others think that was what the stuff really sold for. Didn't take long for everyone to be asking such prices, making these the de-facto prices since no one is offering anything for less. People who wanted or needed things had to pay.
Make no mistake, this is still largely driven by desperation. People who formerly had good incomes are in poverty and selling their possessions and trying to squeeze as much as they can. I think prices will come down IF the economy improves. It isn't going to though. Those who control the economy do not want it to improve; what we're seeing is a deliberate shifting of wealth from the common people to the few at the top, and they're not giving it back.
If you look around, the price of used goods of all sorts have gone up dramatically in the last few years. Used cars are outrageously priced now. I bought a car last summer, and everyone in Fort Wayne was trying to sell junkers with 180,000 miles for seven and eight thousand dollars. I'm talking common mid-priced cars like Fords and Chevys, nothing rare or expensive when new. A few yrs ago, such cars were two or three thousand dollars here in Indiana.
Its the economy. With so many out of work and so many working people earning far less then the actual cost of living, anyone selling some used thing is trying to turn lead into gold. Lens prices are driven today by Ebay, and a few sellers on there started doubling and tripling prices and offering things as buy-it-now only at these prices, which made others think that was what the stuff really sold for. Didn't take long for everyone to be asking such prices, making these the de-facto prices since no one is offering anything for less. People who wanted or needed things had to pay.
Make no mistake, this is still largely driven by desperation. People who formerly had good incomes are in poverty and selling their possessions and trying to squeeze as much as they can. I think prices will come down IF the economy improves. It isn't going to though. Those who control the economy do not want it to improve; what we're seeing is a deliberate shifting of wealth from the common people to the few at the top, and they're not giving it back.
goamules
Well-known
It depends on the lens. If you are talking about those that have increased by very large amounts, in a short amount of time, that's called a bubble. It's caused by a new set of buyers deciding something is worth a lot more than comparable items, then it's inflated quickly by speculators hoping to cash in on the rise. We've all seen what happens to bubbles, when prices double in a year and then double again. At some point, it crashes.
Smaller increases of prices of non cult lenses are more likely to remain in their price zone, moving slowly upwards, as new cameras (digitals) breath new life into old glass.
Recently I've seen people buying vintage lenses for very high prices on Ebay, with the new owner putting them back on Ebay the next week at an even higher buy it now. Things like that don't usually last very long, if you recall all the real estate "flip this house" type of shows and devotees, who are all bankrupt now. I'd expect any vintage lens that has doubled in price more than once is teetering on a very narrow price edge.
Smaller increases of prices of non cult lenses are more likely to remain in their price zone, moving slowly upwards, as new cameras (digitals) breath new life into old glass.
Recently I've seen people buying vintage lenses for very high prices on Ebay, with the new owner putting them back on Ebay the next week at an even higher buy it now. Things like that don't usually last very long, if you recall all the real estate "flip this house" type of shows and devotees, who are all bankrupt now. I'd expect any vintage lens that has doubled in price more than once is teetering on a very narrow price edge.
back alley
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i was thinking that i should wrap my current m gear and store it and wait for really insane prices...and just play with the d90 for now...
whitecat
Lone Range(find)er
They are really join overboard.
segedi
RFicianado
The prices only look high when viewing the dollar (or euro or yen) as being equal to what it was 5 or 6 years ago. The is definitely not the case. But I can't believe inflation to be the only factor. Look at all the shiny new digital camera we can mate old and very good lenses to; demand is up but not necessarily for the film bodies and even brands the lenses were built for.
gb hill
Veteran
Even FSU lenses are ridiculously high in price now. The few CV lenses I bought new or near new I couldn't afford to pay what they are going for on todays used market.
Araakii
Well-known
I don't see the prices peaking until Leica's new factory is online and they raise their MSRP prices high enough to match the prices in the secondary market.
As for used old lenses, the prices will remain high until China's economy crashes.
As for used old lenses, the prices will remain high until China's economy crashes.
back alley
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let's not be so leica-centric...i'm talking about cv, rollei, old canon lenses as well...
n5jrn
Well-known
Many here seem to think prices can only go up from here on. If you are amongst that crowd, I have a question for you: Have you recently (in the last year) purchased a lens because if you waited, you believe the cost would become unaffordable to you?
Mackinaw
Think Different
Me too. Witness the rise in price of the Canon 50/1.2 over the past few years. As Leica raised the price of the Noctilux, the Canon followed quickly behind. You used to be able to buy a Canon 50/1.2 for a few hundred bucks several years back. Today this lens will set you back more than $500.00 USD.
Jim B.
