FS Vontz
Aspirer
Yes, improve the rangefinder, zooming viewfinder and autofocus.
The only thing needing done to that particular rangefinder is to put a better viewfinder in, because it is really bad to be frank
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wayneb
Established
I was in Urban Outfitters yesterday, for those of you outside of the United States, this is a fashion and lifestyle retailer aimed at teenagers through 20s. For their holiday sales display they had a major section of the store devoted to photography. Not digital photography, but Holgas, Dianas, Lomos, books, accessories, /film/, etc. It was surprising.
Most will use the toy cameras and go back to digital to get in focus shots, but some will no doubt move up to real cameras...
Most will use the toy cameras and go back to digital to get in focus shots, but some will no doubt move up to real cameras...
Dave Wilkinson
Veteran
what are those?
thegman
Veteran
I think the biggest problem facing film cameras is the fact that there is so much second-hand gear on the market, and unlike digital, you put a roll of modern film in the camera and it's every bit as good as a new one.
I think also because film cameras attract collectors a lot, then they're more likely to buy a second-user "classic" than a new one.
I think it's possible for new cameras to appear, for a few reasons; 1) The manufacturing process is very mature and also very simple compared to digital, so the investment is small by comparison. 2) The product lifespan of a film camera is much longer than a digital one, so that investment can be recouped over a longer period of time. 3) For manufacturers like Fujifilm, the idea of film camera is appealing as they get a customer to sell film to, on the other hand once a digital camera is sold, the manufacturer probably does not get another penny off the customer. 4) The competition in film cameras is nowhere near as fierce as in digital, bring out a digital compact for a few hundred dollars/pounds, you've got Canon, Nikon, Sony, Samsung, Casio and 10 others breathing down your neck, bring out a film compact for the same price, who is your competitor?
I think also because film cameras attract collectors a lot, then they're more likely to buy a second-user "classic" than a new one.
I think it's possible for new cameras to appear, for a few reasons; 1) The manufacturing process is very mature and also very simple compared to digital, so the investment is small by comparison. 2) The product lifespan of a film camera is much longer than a digital one, so that investment can be recouped over a longer period of time. 3) For manufacturers like Fujifilm, the idea of film camera is appealing as they get a customer to sell film to, on the other hand once a digital camera is sold, the manufacturer probably does not get another penny off the customer. 4) The competition in film cameras is nowhere near as fierce as in digital, bring out a digital compact for a few hundred dollars/pounds, you've got Canon, Nikon, Sony, Samsung, Casio and 10 others breathing down your neck, bring out a film compact for the same price, who is your competitor?
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NickTrop
Veteran
I say no. Cosina, for instance, only makes film cameras (and lenses...) Hypothetically, there might be more manufactures if the supply on the used market wasn't so robust (as others have alluded). And film cameras are, generally speaking, about as durable a consumer item as you'll find.
Pickett Wilson
Veteran
I'm not sure Fuji's idea of making a $2,200 limited production MF folder sold them much additional film.
KenR
Well-known
Nice article in today's Wall Street Journal about the cult of vinyl records and tube amplifiers. I can't wait until they profile us film users - "can you believe these people still use film in these old cameras?" Even in B&H camera the film and darkroom section keeps moving farther from the door and keep shrinking in size. Yet my local camera store says they do a nice film business and that they sell a ton of used film cameras that are not collectors editions but users. So it's not clear to me how long we can continue to buck the digital tide.
bmattock
Veteran
I play vinyl records, have a tube amplifier, wear mechanical wristwatches that go 'tick, tick' and use film. So what? I also use a digital camera, own an iPod Touch, and work in the IT field helping embedded systems engineers make things more automated and computerized. Again, so what? I am not an ism, photography is not a religion, cult, or political party. I will not pledge my loyalty to 'film' or 'digital'. I just take photographs.
Gumby
Veteran
Ya... so what?
jpa66
Jan as in "Jan and Dean"
It's hard to say. I'd say that some new type of film camera may well be manufactured, but I don't think that it would break any new ground. I do remember when the Seagull tlr came out, and I'm thinking that something like that for a niche market might ( and I say might ) be possibly made. Maybe something like a medium format camera similar to a Holga, but actually sturdier and less toy-like, and more like a "serious" camera.
robklurfield
eclipse
bmattock, Amen.
BTW, when did they start making "digital" cameras and what is an iPod?
I not only continue to play vinyl records, but I also continue to buy them (more used ones than new for me these days). There seem to be more different mid-priced to high-end phono cartridges being produced today than at any time I can remember. I think that Stanton continues to produce the 681EEE model that I bought back when I was in high school in the 70's. You can buy cartridges that cost more than an M9 (well, not on my budget). So, is vinyl dead? Did it get killed by CD's, HDCD, etc. ... by MP3's and iTunes? I actually think iTunes may have caused some kids to dip in mom's & dad's record collection and rediscover the joy of spinning a scratchy noisy but intimate record... of holding a gatefold record jacket in hand and reading liner notes (and possibly having some of mom's & dad's stems & seeds tumbling out of the crease).
I just rediscovered processing film at home. As long as they make it, I'll shoot it. There are enough interesting film cameras out there that I could survive if no new models were ever released. I can't say I'd be happy if the supply of spare parts ever runs out during my lifetime. On the other hand, look at the work Cubans have done keeping old American cars on the road in the total absence of any spare parts for almost 50 years now.
Digital temporarily got me off my film habit (truth be told, raising kids did more to get me away from film and having them reach adulthood has now given me the time to rediscover it). When I got an M8, not only did I love using it, but it caused me to revisit and fall in love all over again with film. I plan to continue shooting both far as long as my fingers can depress the shutter button.
BTW, when did they start making "digital" cameras and what is an iPod?
I not only continue to play vinyl records, but I also continue to buy them (more used ones than new for me these days). There seem to be more different mid-priced to high-end phono cartridges being produced today than at any time I can remember. I think that Stanton continues to produce the 681EEE model that I bought back when I was in high school in the 70's. You can buy cartridges that cost more than an M9 (well, not on my budget). So, is vinyl dead? Did it get killed by CD's, HDCD, etc. ... by MP3's and iTunes? I actually think iTunes may have caused some kids to dip in mom's & dad's record collection and rediscover the joy of spinning a scratchy noisy but intimate record... of holding a gatefold record jacket in hand and reading liner notes (and possibly having some of mom's & dad's stems & seeds tumbling out of the crease).
I just rediscovered processing film at home. As long as they make it, I'll shoot it. There are enough interesting film cameras out there that I could survive if no new models were ever released. I can't say I'd be happy if the supply of spare parts ever runs out during my lifetime. On the other hand, look at the work Cubans have done keeping old American cars on the road in the total absence of any spare parts for almost 50 years now.
Digital temporarily got me off my film habit (truth be told, raising kids did more to get me away from film and having them reach adulthood has now given me the time to rediscover it). When I got an M8, not only did I love using it, but it caused me to revisit and fall in love all over again with film. I plan to continue shooting both far as long as my fingers can depress the shutter button.
wgerrard
Veteran
We're all a mixed bag of old and new tech. I shipped a bunch of digital equipment off to KEH today (too lazy to sell it somewhere else). I'm nosing around for an M2. A Ricoh GX200, now my only digital, sits unused most of the time. I process my b&w in the kitchen, but scan the negs and play with them in Photoshop. The nice enlarger I bought a few months ago sits unused, so far. My sole TV is an old 20-inch Sony Trinitron CRT that refuses to die. I've got several hundred CD's stashed in a closet, along with the hardware to play them. I don't own an iPod or a laptop. (Don't need the latter and hate carrying around little things like the former.) I'd buy a Kindle if it could magically digest all the books i already own. Cars are an annoying expense; I fantasize about moving somewhere I don't need a car.
The tick-tick-tick of mechanical watches can keep me awake at night (really), but I stopped wearing a watch every day when I retired.
The tick-tick-tick of mechanical watches can keep me awake at night (really), but I stopped wearing a watch every day when I retired.
nobbylon
Veteran
Speaking of Nikon's, the only thing the later cameras do above the old is smooth out operator error. The later technology was all about making life taking pics simpler and more succesfull. A/F, which itself brings other issues for an inept operator. Exposure control with matrix this and stored scene values that. At the end of the day if one understands exposure and light then all the new stuff becomes redundant unless you want a particular feature set. The latitude with print film makes, IMHO, fancy metering systems a useless technology anyway. A/F to help those of us with eyes not as good as they were, mirror lock, high shutter speeds, copy stand abilities etc etc.
The only real advances as far as picture taking for me, and i'm talking slr's here, would be big, ultra bright viewfinders with vibration free mirror boxes.
I've used over the last 10-15 yrs most of the Nikons and have settled on F2 and F. Not because they are better than the F100 that I thought was the near perfect film camera, but because I like using them and the later tech doesn't actually do anything to make my pics any better.
As far as rangefinders go, I regret selling my M6's. To me the perfect rangefinder. Not as nice to use as my M2 but that's a tactile thing that keeps me from selling it. If I could have a metered M2 then I would probably have found my perfect rangefinder.
AND NO, please don't suggest that sterile, successfull attempt by Leica to liberate us of yet more cash, the MP. I've had one and sold one!
I mainly use digital now (D700) with manual + A/F primes so all of the above is of no consequence anyway! I have to force myself to carry a film cam, which I do most days but the digi goes everywhere. I personally think we're at the end of film.
I look back now and think that the technology rush started with the AE1 Canon, small, light and AE. 1977 wasn't it? For me, that was the defining moment when old school, big, solid feeling mechanical cameras went the way of electronics and techno whiz!
The only real advances as far as picture taking for me, and i'm talking slr's here, would be big, ultra bright viewfinders with vibration free mirror boxes.
I've used over the last 10-15 yrs most of the Nikons and have settled on F2 and F. Not because they are better than the F100 that I thought was the near perfect film camera, but because I like using them and the later tech doesn't actually do anything to make my pics any better.
As far as rangefinders go, I regret selling my M6's. To me the perfect rangefinder. Not as nice to use as my M2 but that's a tactile thing that keeps me from selling it. If I could have a metered M2 then I would probably have found my perfect rangefinder.
AND NO, please don't suggest that sterile, successfull attempt by Leica to liberate us of yet more cash, the MP. I've had one and sold one!
I mainly use digital now (D700) with manual + A/F primes so all of the above is of no consequence anyway! I have to force myself to carry a film cam, which I do most days but the digi goes everywhere. I personally think we're at the end of film.
I look back now and think that the technology rush started with the AE1 Canon, small, light and AE. 1977 wasn't it? For me, that was the defining moment when old school, big, solid feeling mechanical cameras went the way of electronics and techno whiz!
thegman
Veteran
I'm not sure Fuji's idea of making a $2,200 limited production MF folder sold them much additional film.
Maybe not, but Fujifilm Japan have a few medium format and a few 35mm cameras on their website, so I guess every camera they sell gives the potential to sell more film.
Chris101
summicronia
I have no idea, but then, I am not in the loop. The usual suspects would be Sinar, Hasselblad, Leica Cosina, or some here-to-fore unheard of camera maker with production runs in the tens.
I can still buy a couple of different Nikon and Canon 35mm cameras brand new, but I think those companies are subscribing to mass appeal only, so probably not there...
I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that Leica will come out with more specialty MP cameras. For myself; I'd love a red leather Ralph Gibson MP with a 50mm summilux, but they're just a bit out of my price range.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
This threadl lives on and having revisited it I've come to the conclusion that the last serious film camera (as in does everything except cook your dinner) was the Nikon F6!
There may be other film cameras released in the future to cater to the niche users like us who sit in front of our computers wishing for more ... but nothing as proficient and versatile as the F6 will ever hit the shelves again for sure!
There may be other film cameras released in the future to cater to the niche users like us who sit in front of our computers wishing for more ... but nothing as proficient and versatile as the F6 will ever hit the shelves again for sure!
Frontman
Well-known
The only film cameras to be released in the future will be "serious" film cameras. As garden-variety consumers will buy digital, only pros/hobbyists be in the market for film.
Pickett Wilson
Veteran
And it won't be from Leica. It's not a coincidence that their first digital RF was the M8 and then the M9. No where for the M7 to go, it seems.
MaxElmar
Well-known
Large format still continues, pretty much in the same fine-art niche it's been in for the last 50 years.... Even if film production ends, I'll be making glass plate negatives and palladium printing on hand-coated paper... I think we have plenty of time before film ends, if it ever does...
Chris101
summicronia
The F6 is amazing, that's for sure. But I wonder why it exists. Perhaps for the digital shooter who wants to have a film camera they can just pick up and shoot?
I mean, it saves the EXIF to a CF card! What's up with that?