Have you ever had this happen with 120 film?

[Keith]

In it's last couple of days with me before passing it on Australia's traveling Bessa 667 did something very strange to me this morning!

I headed off to shoot the two rolls of Kodak Portra VC160 that were supplied by a photographic lab with the camera as part of the whole traveling Bessa promotion ... the deal is when you finish the film you send it to the lab in Melbourne who develop and scan it and send you a disc and a set of prints basically for the price of the post. I think they actually retain the rights to use the images if they choose as part of the whole project when it has wound up!

I discovered there was an organised 'moto giro' of quite rare early Italian motorcycles turning up at a lookout not far from me and decided to dedicate the two rolls of 160 to that as there would no doubt be some very colourful and beautiful bikes there. When I finished the first roll and wound it on to the takeup spool the action felt a little strange and when I opened the back of the camera the whole roll was very loose on the spool to the point where I feel there may be light contamination to the negative. I have since sealed the roll in a light proof container but am really worried that some very nice shots may have 'gone west' so to speak. The film wasn't actually off the spool to the point where it was outside the edges of the flanges but it was very close to being so and I was sitting in my car in bright light when I opened the camera to change films.

It can't have been a loading problem as this Bessa is extremely easy to load film into and there were no apparent issues when I loaded that particular roll and it felt fairly normal while advancing through the ten available frames.

Do you think it may be OK or am I being a little optomistic? 😱

 

[35mmdelux]

You get what you pay for. In this case the filmn was free so you get nothin.

After photographing Arnold Swarzennger I open the back of my M6 before rewinding the roll of K64. I was shocked, closed the back immediately. I may have lost 1 image. Do NOT try this at home.

PS: I was shooting with 2 M6s that day. The 2nd camera I didnt open til I got home. Brain freeze.

 

[David William White]

Well, I once opened the back of my TLR half-way through a roll, totally in daylight, and therefore the film only protected by the backing paper. I ended up with a very cool light leak border around that single frame, encroaching only a wee bit on the composition.

So my guess is probably only slight edge effect, if any at all, in your case.

 

[kansas_parker]

That problem happened to me with my Universal Press 6x9 back recently. I don't know if I just didn't get it started correctly. I've never had this issue before with the camera.

 

[FrozenInTime]

I had a very similar problem with a Seitz Roundshot 28/220 : this was a panoramic camera with a 360degree rotating head.

If I left a film in it during transport - even with the head locked so it could not rotate, the take up spool loosened and the film was no longer tight on the spool. If I took a whole film in one there was no issue.

If this is happening with you, it could be a similar slippage problem with the clutch that only allows one way rotation of the take up spool.

 

[Keith]

I had a very similar problem with a Seitz Roundshot 28/220 : this was a panoramic camera with a 360degree rotating head.

If I left a film in it during transport - even with the head locked so it could not rotate, the take up spool loosened and the film was no longer tight on the spool. If I took a whole film in one there was no issue.

If this is happening with you, it could be a similar slippage problem with the clutch that only allows one way rotation of the take up spool.

I don't think it's a problem with the camera as it's virtually new and the next roll was perfect and came out as tight as a drum .... I have also run a few various rolls of black and white through the camera and they have all been fine!

I took the roll of Portra into my darkroom and felt how loose it was and it was very loose. I managed to get it it sit tighter by rotating it with my fingers systematically but I don't hold much hope for it being a lot of use!

Interestingly this was the fisrt time I had used the camera set on 6x7 ... all the previous rolls had been 6x6. ... maybe the pressure plate hadn't settled into it's new position correctly after I altered the size setting?

 

[JohnTF]

I have had some extra tight rolls and some looser rolls with my Fuji's. For some reason, my 6x9 Fuji is more prone to some edge fogging, it seems part of the game with MF roll film. With my 645 Fuji, it seemed so tight it felt jammed, had it opened at a camera store and it was OK, but tight on the spools.

Probably a good idea to keep some light tight bags to keep rolls.

I don't recall much light leak with the Blads though.

Color film is much harder to ruin by accidental exposure, as it is much more opaque, does not take much to spoil a roll of B&W 35mm.

John

 

[Pherdinand]

sometimes it's not such a cathastrophe 🙂

 

[Tom A]

I find that with MF rolls (120/220) you should always tension the advance of the roll. With the Bessa I wind it to start point and then push down with my finger on the backing (close to the full roll -left side) and turn the advance slightly so that the paper lies flat and under tension.
It also depends on the film, some "uncurl" more than others. Efke 25 and EDU 100 is very "springy" and tends to want to curl away from the center spool.
So far no light leaks though. It is a problem related to the film, not the camera. I have had it happen to Rollie's and other folders. Hasselblads are pretty well impervious to it as the filminsert will hold it pretty tight.

 

[julio1fer]

I had that problem with a few 120 rolls in a TLR. I got some light leaks on the edges of the frames but they were usable (alas, not exactly what I had composed).

 

[kuzano]

I often risk sacrificing the first frame of MF

I often risk sacrificing the first frame of MF

As I just mentioned in another thread not ten minutes ago, MF film in horizontal transport mechanisms need to be kept under tension as you close the camera. Cameras that use preloaded inserts or backs are not subject to this tension problem as a rule.

I often roll well past the start mark keeping tension on the film. Otherwise, it can bunch up on the takeup and edge fogging can occur when unloaded. Here is what I posted a few minutes ago:

Most Important instruction (included or not)
Most of the Fuji rangefinder manuals speak to one of the biggest issues of loading mediium format film in 35mm-like film transports. Medium format film will pile up on the take-up spool and bog down halfway through the roll IF YOU DO NOT keep tension on the film as you load the takeup roll and close the camera. This is true of any MF camera like the Fujis, Pentax 6X7 and 67 and others that do not use a removable film cartridge.

Keep tension on the film through the film plane, by holding one finger on the supply roll and a finger on the rewind lever as you close the camera.

Iv'e used many Fuji range finders including two or three of the original folders. The problems noted here on this thread has occurred often if not loaded under tension.

In fact for quite a while the Fuji manuals spoke quite clearly to this issue.

Does the manual for the new Bessa III folder NOT bring up this point on loading.

 

[Keith]

Curiosity got the better of me so I mixed up a fresh batch of C41 chemicals and processed the film this morning. Big light leaks a plenty around the edges but considering how much light must have actually got in not as bad as I expected. Some judicious cropping will give me some usable images I hope and it is a big negative after all! 😛

I might post some pics later. 🙂

 

[Debusti Paolo]

YES we'are waiting for it?how do you handle the bessa?how do you think about it?

 

[Pherdinand]

how exactly would you do that, kuzano? To keep your finger on the spool while closing the back?

 

[JohnTF]

As I just mentioned in another thread not ten minutes ago, MF film in horizontal transport mechanisms need to be kept under tension as you close the camera. Cameras that use preloaded inserts or backs are not subject to this tension problem as a rule.

I often roll well past the start mark keeping tension on the film. Otherwise, it can bunch up on the takeup and edge fogging can occur when unloaded. Here is what I posted a few minutes ago:

Most Important instruction (included or not)
Most of the Fuji rangefinder manuals speak to one of the biggest issues of loading mediium format film in 35mm-like film transports. Medium format film will pile up on the take-up spool and bog down halfway through the roll IF YOU DO NOT keep tension on the film as you load the takeup roll and close the camera. This is true of any MF camera like the Fujis, Pentax 6X7 and 67 and others that do not use a removable film cartridge.

Keep tension on the film through the film plane, by holding one finger on the supply roll and a finger on the rewind lever as you close the camera.

Iv'e used many Fuji range finders including two or three of the original folders. The problems noted here on this thread has occurred often if not loaded under tension.

In fact for quite a while the Fuji manuals spoke quite clearly to this issue.

Does the manual for the new Bessa III folder NOT bring up this point on loading.

Hmmm, thought I normally did this, and if I am shooting 15 shots on a 645 format, there should be a bit more extra film, I advance a bit more than the arrow to begin with, especially with C41 films, as the people processing it load it in to cartridges with the end of the film left out, and if you have exposures closer to that exposed end, you can lose a frame.

If I started right at the arrow, the first frame was fairly close to the taped end, and there was quite a bit of blank space at the other end.

You also want to make sure the paper is as centered in the take up as you can get it, if the paper is a bit off, it can bind on one side.

The cameras I have that get the full 16 frames are a bit more complex in their loading and advance mechanism.

John

 

[Leigh Youdale]

Keith - yes, I've had it happen on a Bessa I 6x9 folder. I also had it happen once on a Yashicamat 124G. (Both since sold). Interestingly, my Rolleiflex has a second roller on the feed side which the other two cameras didn't have (and which the Bessa appears not to have) and the camera instructions are quite explicit that the film MUST be inserted under this roller before it goes over the "normal" roller immediately ahead of the film gate. It seems this second roller puts a slight bend in the film path, assists in keeping tension on the film and in so doing ensures the film stays flat going into the exposure zone. The little pressure plate that sits against the film roll is often not strong enough itself to provide the sort of tension needed.
As others have suggested, I always use slight finger pressure on the new roll until I have to close the door to 'hold back' the film as I simultaneously operate the advance winder, to prevent any tendency for the film to lose tension.
Another little trick is to insert the new roll in the camera BEFORE you undo the tape that holds the roll tight.
It can be a problem with 120 if not handled carefully. I process quite a few rolls of film for my local camera store, brought in by students and many of them exhibit exactly what you've found.

 

[Pherdinand]

Leigh,

the double roller in the rolleiflex ensures proper frame counter starting. When the film passes through it, it is thicker than the paper only, and this switches on the counter.
If you don't put the film through the rollers, your counter won't ever start.

That's why you don't have the double rollers on rolleicords or rollei T models, or very old rolleiflexes.

 

[Keith]

Not such a disaster ... a bit of cropping has given me plenty of shots from the roll. A couple are total wipe outs but over all it could have been worse.

 

[Keith]

This is probably the worst of them.

And this pic was nearly uneffected which was good because this bike was stunning!

 

[mgd711]

Amazing shot’s Keith!

I’ve always loaded my MF rangefinders with a thumb on the film to tension it as I wind it onto the take up spool. I’ve never had a problem though I’ve seen a few friends take some very slack roll’s of film out of cameras.