oris642
natural person
This is auction #170245079459 for an M8 that ended yesterday at 10:40 am Pacific Time. I just sent this to Ebay Security:
Dear Ebay Security:
1) Seller has 0 rating.
2) Buyer has 494 rating.
3) Seller sold a “Leica M8 camera”, quite rare, about 10,000 made annually.
4) Winning bid was $4,050 USD and ended at 10:40 am Pacific Time on August 1.
5) I, as buyer, live in same city as seller.
6) I emailed seller 40 minutes after end of auction, asking when we can meet so I can give him cash, and gave him my cell number.
7) Seller refuses to meet, insists on Paypal only.
8) Ad says “Paypal preferred”; does not say Paypal only.
9) Seller has since admitted that ad says Paypal preferred: “i did say prefered payment was paypal and did not say i was going to meet, or have over for tea,or any other form of payment/SHIPPING if this is not good I will relist it.....”
10) I offered to meet in a neutral, safe area and suggested meeting at the local RCMP (Royal Canadian Mounted Police) station’s public reception area. : )
11) Seller suggests that I might not be willing to pay: “yes a prudent buyer, also a person who might not want to pay for a item they had bid on. What ever just say you are not going to use paypal and i will sell it to somebody else sorry to have put you out.”
12) I emailed seller a picture of $4,050 cash alongside front page of local paper from August 1st.
13) This morning I emailed him another picture of $4,050 in cash, along with front page of local paper from August 2nd.
14) I emailed another buyer who is also local, and won two auctions from same seller: “I also live locally and was thinking of picking up the item, since it safeguards me against any defective or scamming activities. However, the seller seems quite resistent on meeting locally”
15) I strongly suspect that seller does not actually have the item for sale:
(A) Stock photo only in ad
(B) Said he would post picture of actual item, but never did
(C) Says, “New, Never Opened” but later in answer to question says “has only maybe a hour, two tops on it as far as usage goes…”
(D) Listed under “SLR, Professional”. A Leica M8 is not a SLR; it’s a rangefinder. Someone who owns something as rare as a Leica would know that.
(E) Listing only mentions shipping to the US. Why not sell to Canada since seller lives in Canada?
(F) Has never given me his name, address, or a phone number.
(G) Has never signed any of his emails with his name.
(H) Uses a gmail account.
(I) Seller has my cell number but has never phoned me.
I have offered this morning that if he doesn’t want to meet, then he can courier the camera over to me COD. Seems fair since his rating is 0 and mine is 494.
If he doesn’t contact me by 9:00 am this morning, to give me a time as to when we can meet at the RCMP station, I told him I would be contacting the RCMP Internet Crime Division. He still has less than an hour to respond.
He says he will relist it. I leave that in your hands to deal with.
Sincerely, Eric Ho
Well, I dunno. Should I Paypal him $4,050? http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif
He says he will relist, so HEADS UP!!!
Kinda bummer of a first post, but the least I can do for fellow members, whom I've learned a lot from due to my lurking here the last month or two...
Dear Ebay Security:
1) Seller has 0 rating.
2) Buyer has 494 rating.
3) Seller sold a “Leica M8 camera”, quite rare, about 10,000 made annually.
4) Winning bid was $4,050 USD and ended at 10:40 am Pacific Time on August 1.
5) I, as buyer, live in same city as seller.
6) I emailed seller 40 minutes after end of auction, asking when we can meet so I can give him cash, and gave him my cell number.
7) Seller refuses to meet, insists on Paypal only.
8) Ad says “Paypal preferred”; does not say Paypal only.
9) Seller has since admitted that ad says Paypal preferred: “i did say prefered payment was paypal and did not say i was going to meet, or have over for tea,or any other form of payment/SHIPPING if this is not good I will relist it.....”
10) I offered to meet in a neutral, safe area and suggested meeting at the local RCMP (Royal Canadian Mounted Police) station’s public reception area. : )
11) Seller suggests that I might not be willing to pay: “yes a prudent buyer, also a person who might not want to pay for a item they had bid on. What ever just say you are not going to use paypal and i will sell it to somebody else sorry to have put you out.”
12) I emailed seller a picture of $4,050 cash alongside front page of local paper from August 1st.
13) This morning I emailed him another picture of $4,050 in cash, along with front page of local paper from August 2nd.
14) I emailed another buyer who is also local, and won two auctions from same seller: “I also live locally and was thinking of picking up the item, since it safeguards me against any defective or scamming activities. However, the seller seems quite resistent on meeting locally”
15) I strongly suspect that seller does not actually have the item for sale:
(A) Stock photo only in ad
(B) Said he would post picture of actual item, but never did
(C) Says, “New, Never Opened” but later in answer to question says “has only maybe a hour, two tops on it as far as usage goes…”
(D) Listed under “SLR, Professional”. A Leica M8 is not a SLR; it’s a rangefinder. Someone who owns something as rare as a Leica would know that.
(E) Listing only mentions shipping to the US. Why not sell to Canada since seller lives in Canada?
(F) Has never given me his name, address, or a phone number.
(G) Has never signed any of his emails with his name.
(H) Uses a gmail account.
(I) Seller has my cell number but has never phoned me.
I have offered this morning that if he doesn’t want to meet, then he can courier the camera over to me COD. Seems fair since his rating is 0 and mine is 494.
If he doesn’t contact me by 9:00 am this morning, to give me a time as to when we can meet at the RCMP station, I told him I would be contacting the RCMP Internet Crime Division. He still has less than an hour to respond.
He says he will relist it. I leave that in your hands to deal with.
Sincerely, Eric Ho
Well, I dunno. Should I Paypal him $4,050? http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif
He says he will relist, so HEADS UP!!!
Kinda bummer of a first post, but the least I can do for fellow members, whom I've learned a lot from due to my lurking here the last month or two...
SolaresLarrave
My M5s need red dots!
Well, Eric... good luck and thanks for an exciting story! 
BTW, welcome to RFF. You'll find lots of compatriots here.
BTW, welcome to RFF. You'll find lots of compatriots here.
ferider
Veteran
Welcome Eric.
You know, maybe the seller tells the truth and doesn't want to meet you (he doesn't have to) due to his limited moving capability (see his answer to one of the questions) ? Just a thought.
Just buy another one. One recently was listed at RFF from a reliable seller (Robert) for an equivalent price.
On a practical note, this alert will help no one, since we have no info on the camera and the seller could just create another new, 0 feedback account.
Roland.
You know, maybe the seller tells the truth and doesn't want to meet you (he doesn't have to) due to his limited moving capability (see his answer to one of the questions) ? Just a thought.
Just buy another one. One recently was listed at RFF from a reliable seller (Robert) for an equivalent price.
On a practical note, this alert will help no one, since we have no info on the camera and the seller could just create another new, 0 feedback account.
Roland.
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sienarot
Well-known
Watch out for those Calgarians who will drive 1000km to deliver too. They're trouble!
oris642
natural person
Yup, I was definitely suspicious about the ad. And a 0 rating? That's why I suggested that if he doesn't want to meet he should courier it to me COD. Not to mention that he would save $170 in Paypal & shipping fees, and not have to wait for his money. And I still do not have his name, address, a phone number of any kind, and only a gmail address.
BTW, I'm the one who bought the Tri-Elmar off Derrick here (sienarot). Guess what? We did it in person! (Derrick was in town for something else so he brought it with him).
BTW, I'm the one who bought the Tri-Elmar off Derrick here (sienarot). Guess what? We did it in person! (Derrick was in town for something else so he brought it with him).
oris642
natural person
Hey Derrick, you can type faster than I can! BTW, I have a complaint about that lens you sold me; it doesn't autofocus very well : )
tbarker13
shooter of stuff
I don't think there's anything there that proves he's running a scam. Certainly there's enough to make a person suspicious, but he could just be someone who doesn't want the hassle of having to meet you.
Regardless, though, I would not be spending that kind of money with a seller who has zero or limited feedback. There are plenty of used M8s out there on the market.
Regardless, though, I would not be spending that kind of money with a seller who has zero or limited feedback. There are plenty of used M8s out there on the market.
yanidel
Well-known
I would never ever pay $4000 to a zero rating. 80% are probably serious sellers but this is high risk. And sincerely, the more you insist (like dollars next to a newspaper), the more he is going to think you are nuts
LOOP
maraboutflash
M8 and expensive cameras to get people crazy !!!
M8 and expensive cameras to get people crazy !!!
I know it is not your point but how can someone willing to take pictures set so much money on a camera ?
I'd be afraid to take street pictures in town, any town ...perhaps you like to be anxious about getting stolen !:bang::bang:
M8 and expensive cameras to get people crazy !!!
I know it is not your point but how can someone willing to take pictures set so much money on a camera ?
I'd be afraid to take street pictures in town, any town ...perhaps you like to be anxious about getting stolen !:bang::bang:
izziebears
Member
I would say it is 90% a scam. His ad copy reads like the emails I get from Nigeria promising to make me a millionaire.
kuzano
Veteran
Are all your communications still through eBay????
Are all your communications still through eBay????
Have you only communicated through eBay, or are you now communicating directly through emails from your own ISP or other. What is the ISP or provider for mail for his address. Is it in your town?... or a Yahoo or Gmail address or other web based?
Header information on his emails might allow you to pin down if he's even in your part of the country.
Are all your communications still through eBay????
Have you only communicated through eBay, or are you now communicating directly through emails from your own ISP or other. What is the ISP or provider for mail for his address. Is it in your town?... or a Yahoo or Gmail address or other web based?
Header information on his emails might allow you to pin down if he's even in your part of the country.
Broke
Established
In the sellers answers to questions posed by bidders he claims he couldn't take a photo of the actual sale item as he/she is "in a wheel chair and I have limmited use of my arms".
Good lord.
Good lord.
oris642
natural person
Leica M8 on Ebay
Leica M8 on Ebay
"I know it is not your point but how can someone willing to take pictures set so much money on a camera ?
I'd be afraid to take street pictures in town, any town ...perhaps you like to be anxious about getting stolen !"
Same here. I suspected a scam, but figured I would flush him out since I'm a local. Looks like that's the case. I figured if I didn't like the M8 I would just sell it again. Yes, I do like the low profile of a R-D1.
He well might not be able to meet me because he says he's in a wheelchair. I offered in that case for him to send it by his courier and I will pay for it COD. No response.
He might worry that I could rip him off. That's why I suggested meeting at the local cop shop reception area.
As for the picture of the cash, he tried to back out of the deal by suggesting that I "was not willing to complete the transaction". After I sent him that picture he never said that again.
It's past the 9 am deadline, so he has tacitly agreed that he does not have such an item, so I have now reported him to RCMP Internet Crimes division.
Leica M8 on Ebay
"I know it is not your point but how can someone willing to take pictures set so much money on a camera ?
I'd be afraid to take street pictures in town, any town ...perhaps you like to be anxious about getting stolen !"
Same here. I suspected a scam, but figured I would flush him out since I'm a local. Looks like that's the case. I figured if I didn't like the M8 I would just sell it again. Yes, I do like the low profile of a R-D1.
He well might not be able to meet me because he says he's in a wheelchair. I offered in that case for him to send it by his courier and I will pay for it COD. No response.
He might worry that I could rip him off. That's why I suggested meeting at the local cop shop reception area.
As for the picture of the cash, he tried to back out of the deal by suggesting that I "was not willing to complete the transaction". After I sent him that picture he never said that again.
It's past the 9 am deadline, so he has tacitly agreed that he does not have such an item, so I have now reported him to RCMP Internet Crimes division.
sienarot
Well-known
Whoops, I guess I shouldn't have dropped the lens on the concrete so hard. I'll try juggling with something lighter next time
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
I think it takes a lot of nerve to expect anyone to risk any significant amount of $$ unless and until the seller has amassed a decent reputation. I know I didn't offer anything in excess of $60.00 or so until I had my first star (10 transactions); and still didn't expect any really serious money until I got my next star (50 transactions). And I pass over pricey items from sellers with below 50 items (well, I remember winning an expensive item from someone with 49 transactions and 100% feedback). But he got his blue star after his transaction with me, so I figured that was close enough . . .
Thardy
Veteran
Was a reserve set? What happens if you win the auction for say, $900?
oris642
natural person
There was no reserve. Bidding started at $.99. If it was $900 I still would have suggested a face-t-face - after all, why not?
BTW, his last email to me this morning (minor censoring to preserve the PG rating of this forum):
"hay how about you go f*ck yourself and that will be that , i wu=ouldn't sell you sh*t if you had a mouth full of it."
It was sent insid ethe Ebay email service, so Ebay has a copy of it : )
BTW, his last email to me this morning (minor censoring to preserve the PG rating of this forum):
"hay how about you go f*ck yourself and that will be that , i wu=ouldn't sell you sh*t if you had a mouth full of it."
It was sent insid ethe Ebay email service, so Ebay has a copy of it : )
wayne.mills
Newbie
On the subject of scams - enquiries about a mint 35 'lux ASPHERICAL advertised in an Australian online Trading Post at an extremely attractive price drew this reponse from the vendor who claimed he was located in the UK, viz; "As i said before i want to use a third party agency where both are safe.
I have a contract with such a agency and is really good,is not the first time when I am using it.
This is the agency site:
www.fastlogistic.mzian.com and go to "How It Works" page,you'll find all the details that you need.
To start the transaction with me you'll have to register on the site at the "Register " page and also let me know your full name and address,I need to know where to send it." ....so... is this a scam?...I wasn't game to find out!
I have a contract with such a agency and is really good,is not the first time when I am using it.
This is the agency site:
www.fastlogistic.mzian.com and go to "How It Works" page,you'll find all the details that you need.
To start the transaction with me you'll have to register on the site at the "Register " page and also let me know your full name and address,I need to know where to send it." ....so... is this a scam?...I wasn't game to find out!
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tbarker13
shooter of stuff
For your sake, I do indeed hope this guy is a scammer.
I don't think ebay has any sort of requirement to complete a deal face-to-face. Frankly, if I were a seller I'd refuse a face-to-face meeting unless I'd made an agreement before the buyer submitted a bid.
The only thing this guy has actually done (in terms of what you can prove) is to refuse to meet you or your courier.
I'm not saying I wouldn't be wary of him. But because he refused to do business on your terms, he's been reported to the police.
I don't think ebay has any sort of requirement to complete a deal face-to-face. Frankly, if I were a seller I'd refuse a face-to-face meeting unless I'd made an agreement before the buyer submitted a bid.
The only thing this guy has actually done (in terms of what you can prove) is to refuse to meet you or your courier.
I'm not saying I wouldn't be wary of him. But because he refused to do business on your terms, he's been reported to the police.
ferider
Veteran
Very nice, like this thread overall and it's copy in the RD1 forum.
In dubito pro res - you don't know if the seller is a scammer.
At the high risk of being flamed for this:
The seller was not obligated to meet you, you agreed to a deal and failed to follow through, and in addition reported him to the police. At no point did the seller agree on a personal cash transaction before the auction closed. He lost the money that he paid for the ebay add. Maybe he didn't want to meet you because (a) he couldn't physically, or (b) because of your agressive messages, this thread (chances are he is an RFF member) and your own 97.7% ebay feedback.
Roland.
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