Heliar Lens Scratch. Will It Affect the Photos?

[Steve M.]

I have an old Voigtlander 6x9 folder w/ a 105 Skopar lens. I really wanted a Heliar, and when the chance came to buy one on eBay I jumped on it. Ended up costing about $190 shipped, but the hope was that I could just screw it's elements into my Skopar's shutter and avoid having to swap the whole shutter/lens assy.

When it came today I was excited. It looked exactly the same size as the Skopar. Should be able to screw the elements right in. But when I flipped it over my excitement turned to disappointment. There's a deep scratch at the rear edge of the element about 3/8" of an inch long. I took a photo here. It's the best my little P&S digital could do, but it's good enough to see the problem, hopefully. I suppose I could fill it in w/ black paint to cut out any reflections.

These lenses don't come up often w/o buying a whole camera at a much higher price, but I'm concerned about it affecting the image quality. However, it's at the edge, so I don't know. Has anyone had experience w/ a similar issue? I've emailed the seller and I'm not sure where this will go from here, but if it WILL affect image quality it's going back. If it won't, then maybe we can work out a partial refund. I know, the only way is to shoot it, but I'm just trying to get a little information ahead of time. Thanks.

 

[LKeithR]

It's really amazing sometimes how marked and scratched a lens can be and still not have anything show up in an image but there is a limit. I have read--somewhere--that marks on the front element are less intrusive than those on the rear but this is a short lens so it may have a different effect. The fact that the mark is on the side is a plus as well. Still, the only way you'll know for sure is to shoot it and see what you get...

 

[Steve M.]

Thanks. I've had lenses w/ all manner of scratches and scuffs on the front element, and other than an occasional loss of contrast that's easily fixed, never had any problems. But a problem w/ the rear glass spooks me. I don't THINK it's close enough to the center of the glass to matter, but I'm just not sure either. If I remember correctly, these 4.5 Heliars can be used on larger cameras than my 6x9 (the 3.5 versions even more so), so maybe it's OK w/ 6x9. Hopefully someone here has experienced a similar lens issue and can tell me how it worked out.

 

[jmcd]

A problem could be flare. Old timers used to paint in the scratches black to stop this from happening.

 

[Steve M.]

Right. I'm close to 60, so definitely in the old timer category. Doesn't seem to have imparted any wisdom on this issue though 🙁. I plan on a little black paint in it if I keep it.

I did some googling, and someone mentioned (on an old RFF thread oddly enough) to use the lens like a magnifying glass or loupe, and look at fine print or something w/ lots of detail, and see if you could make out any optically irregularities. Makes sense, so I did that and you can see the scratch at the edge of the lens. Doesn't show any distortion or anything, but you can see it, vaguely. Looks like a tiny line, finer than a hair, at the edge. My guess is that although the scratch is a bit like a gouge on the outside, on the inside it shows as a fine line. I better pull it out and confirm that though.

The question is, is it within the film plane? If it's outside of it, who cares? But if it's within the film plane? Not sure. Possibly, if I can make sure the scratch is placed on the top or bottom of the 6x9 film area, it's not an issue.

 

[oftheherd]

Put plastic or something over the film plane and see if you can spot it. If you are correct on the circle of coverage, I doubt it will be seen. Of course, the real test will be with a roll of film at different apertures.

 

[Steve M.]

That's an excellent idea. I'll try that.

Yes, apertures could be the deal. Stopped down, probably no issues. Fortunately it's an f4.5 lens, so wide open isn't that wide open. I think. It's all relative probably, and you're right, until I shoot it it's all theory.

I emailed the seller the photo, and he seems reasonable, so maybe I can get a partial refund. I really don't want to send it back. Pacific Rim Camera, who are wonderful people to buy from, has a similar lens for $225 plus shipping, but theirs has some sort of stuff inside the elements. They don't think it's haze or fungus, but for that price I'd like it to be clean.