akalai
Well-known
Hey Stet!
Glad everything has sorted itself out. And Essex seem to have proven themselves by taking responsibility and apologising for their mistake...that kind of honesty unfortunately seems to be quite rare these days.
Anyway stick with your Canon 7s, I am sure after you get it back you will be more than pleased with it...and if you are lucky a forum member might contact you with a good 50mm lens or at least point you in the right direction.
So best of luck and have fun!
AKALAI
Glad everything has sorted itself out. And Essex seem to have proven themselves by taking responsibility and apologising for their mistake...that kind of honesty unfortunately seems to be quite rare these days.
Anyway stick with your Canon 7s, I am sure after you get it back you will be more than pleased with it...and if you are lucky a forum member might contact you with a good 50mm lens or at least point you in the right direction.
So best of luck and have fun!
AKALAI
jlw
Rangefinder camera pedant
Wow, glad THAT worked out!
Too bad about the lens, but don't give up on it until you've tried the test roll. Meanwhile, you might ask around the forum and see if someone has a cosmetically rough but optically clean 50mm lens of some sort that they'd sell you cheap.
Good luck, and let us know how it comes out. I've got a 7s myself and would like to know a good place to send it, if it ever needs any maintenance...
Too bad about the lens, but don't give up on it until you've tried the test roll. Meanwhile, you might ask around the forum and see if someone has a cosmetically rough but optically clean 50mm lens of some sort that they'd sell you cheap.
Good luck, and let us know how it comes out. I've got a 7s myself and would like to know a good place to send it, if it ever needs any maintenance...
I would wait for the test roll on the lens. One time Ian called the house about the Summarit, explaining that it could not be fully restored. I told him that based on the 1st Summarit that I sent him that was in worse condition that I was not too worried. You may look for a hood for it, that helps.
If not, I suspect that if you posted a few shots taken with it here. You could probably sell it or trade it for enough to get a Canon 50mm F1.8 out of it. I'll be on the lookout for another. My last three all have homes with RFF members.
If not, I suspect that if you posted a few shots taken with it here. You could probably sell it or trade it for enough to get a Canon 50mm F1.8 out of it. I'll be on the lookout for another. My last three all have homes with RFF members.
stet
lurker.
thanks for the kind words and support, guys. this is hands down one of the two most welcoming, mature and decent web forums I've been to, which is refreshing. I'm really glad that I stumbled on it.
I feel good, too, that the camera and that Essex is taking care of it (again, which I learned about here), and I can hardly wait to get under way with a test roll. What Brian said about the Summarit, though, seems promising. I wish I had it for the class, whcih starts tonight, but c'est la. Also, I don't know too much about other lens options, so I'm going to try to look into the Russian makes that Joe mentioned (or rather, I didn't know they were an option for the 7s).
I guess the funny thing is that my photo I class starts tonight. Really, I've never shot with a manual camera before. My other camera is a Ricoh R1S point & shoot, and working that's the extent of my camera expertise. But I'll keep everyone posted on the Canon and the class, and I hope to have some photos from the 7s up in the gallery soon.
I feel good, too, that the camera and that Essex is taking care of it (again, which I learned about here), and I can hardly wait to get under way with a test roll. What Brian said about the Summarit, though, seems promising. I wish I had it for the class, whcih starts tonight, but c'est la. Also, I don't know too much about other lens options, so I'm going to try to look into the Russian makes that Joe mentioned (or rather, I didn't know they were an option for the 7s).
I guess the funny thing is that my photo I class starts tonight. Really, I've never shot with a manual camera before. My other camera is a Ricoh R1S point & shoot, and working that's the extent of my camera expertise. But I'll keep everyone posted on the Canon and the class, and I hope to have some photos from the 7s up in the gallery soon.
harry01562
Registered semi-lurker
Glad that almost everything seems to be working out for you, and hope the lens is among the survivors. The Canon 1.8's seem to be bringing healthy sums lately, but the Jupiter 8's are still cheap. I haven't used one to any extent, but do have one on my Zorki 1. If you order one from a dealer like Oleg, you can be pretty certain that it will be of decent quality.
The Canon lens may surprise you, when you run the test roll. From the description, the damage may be more cosmetic than optic. Even with some loss of contrast, you should get acceptable results.
The Canon lens may surprise you, when you run the test roll. From the description, the damage may be more cosmetic than optic. Even with some loss of contrast, you should get acceptable results.
W
wlewisiii
Guest
Stet, I'm glad everything seems to be working out. I think you're going to have a glorious camera in the long run and I'm even more glad, for you, that your father bought such a delightful camera to begin with. Cameras are very personal things. There are very few objects that reflect how we look at the world - a camera and it's lens is one of them. With a bit of luck and grace, you'll get back a great body and a good lens.
The Jupiter 8 is one of the classic lenses; the Russians have always cribbed from the best the world had to offer and I think the Sonnar design is one of the best out there. But I'll simply mention that you might also enjoy finding an Industar 22 or 26 or 50. These are all Tessar derivatives that have a very different "feel" than the Sonnar. Both are good designs, but there is a certain look to the Tessar that is unmistakable. You may, or may not, like it. I mention it mainly because they are cheap to try and you might find that the Tessar look is one you like.
No matter what else, enjoy.
William
The Jupiter 8 is one of the classic lenses; the Russians have always cribbed from the best the world had to offer and I think the Sonnar design is one of the best out there. But I'll simply mention that you might also enjoy finding an Industar 22 or 26 or 50. These are all Tessar derivatives that have a very different "feel" than the Sonnar. Both are good designs, but there is a certain look to the Tessar that is unmistakable. You may, or may not, like it. I mention it mainly because they are cheap to try and you might find that the Tessar look is one you like.
No matter what else, enjoy.
William
stet
lurker.
OK, this post is a bit overdue, but I've gotten my camera and lens back, and the end result is fantastic. Essex did a wonderful job, and I've already printed a couple things in class that make me really happy. (the teacher says his job with Photo I is to get us hooked, and the teacher in Photo II leans on us to work hard and tirelessly on our prints. he --and the camera and RFF -- are doing a good job on getting me hooked!) I'll try to post a pic or two later this weekend, but I'm using my girlfriend's Lexmark printer/"copier"/scanner, so I don't know how that will turn out.
The lens has some scratch marks on the front and some stuff inside on the back, but thankfully none of that shows up. I tested at first with some c-41 color that I took to to the drug store, shooting toward sunlight to see if anything would flare, and nothing. i also took a pic of a fire hydrant at f2 that was the first photo I ever took with a leading line and blurred-out background -- geting that back actually made me giddy.
My happiness with the camera now completely overshadows the second minor shipping horror I had with it. After a couple weeks, I called Essex to check up on it, and they told me it was sent -- and should've arrived days prior. I got the postal insurance number and went back to the post office. It was showing as arrived at the station, but undelivered. After about 20 minutes of people searching back there, a clerk remembered that there was a box that had been sitting in the back for a few days that was marked return to sender. Essex had addressed it to the wrong box number. Luckily, because it was insured, no one could pick it up but me, with ID. Still, for 45 mintues I was like, "not again!"
Anyways, now I am very happy, and I've somehow accumulated an Industar-61 from sockeyed and have a Voigtlander 35/2.5 pancake on the way, courtesy pfogle. Thanks again, everyone, for your support and help with getting this camera set up.
So, to stay on topic, again I have two questions/concerns:
The metering has confounded me. The first black and white roll i took mostly came out OK, but the second was overexposed all the way through. I even used a gray card for some of the shots. All that I could think of is that maybe I didn't have the ASA set correctly, or maybe I don't know how to meter. when i was using the gray card, I'd hold it up about 8-12 inches in front of the meter eye. In the manual it says the "exposure meter acceptance angle is 40 degrees," so "it is possible to measure the princial subject without being hindered by excessive light." I'm not sure what that means, but I'm wondering if that angle means I shouldn't hold a gray card directly in front of it, but more in front of the lens itself. Any ideas or insight on how best to meter?
The other thing is with the advance lever. Natually, after the shutter fires, I can't fire again till I advance the film. But then I find that I can advance and advance and advance, probably until I reach the end of the roll. Sometimes I forget, and advance it, and I'll develop a roll with a lot of unexposed gaps in it. Is this normal?
as always, insights and tips are super-appreciated.
-Rick, yet another new member, with slight GAS too.
The lens has some scratch marks on the front and some stuff inside on the back, but thankfully none of that shows up. I tested at first with some c-41 color that I took to to the drug store, shooting toward sunlight to see if anything would flare, and nothing. i also took a pic of a fire hydrant at f2 that was the first photo I ever took with a leading line and blurred-out background -- geting that back actually made me giddy.
My happiness with the camera now completely overshadows the second minor shipping horror I had with it. After a couple weeks, I called Essex to check up on it, and they told me it was sent -- and should've arrived days prior. I got the postal insurance number and went back to the post office. It was showing as arrived at the station, but undelivered. After about 20 minutes of people searching back there, a clerk remembered that there was a box that had been sitting in the back for a few days that was marked return to sender. Essex had addressed it to the wrong box number. Luckily, because it was insured, no one could pick it up but me, with ID. Still, for 45 mintues I was like, "not again!"
Anyways, now I am very happy, and I've somehow accumulated an Industar-61 from sockeyed and have a Voigtlander 35/2.5 pancake on the way, courtesy pfogle. Thanks again, everyone, for your support and help with getting this camera set up.
So, to stay on topic, again I have two questions/concerns:
The metering has confounded me. The first black and white roll i took mostly came out OK, but the second was overexposed all the way through. I even used a gray card for some of the shots. All that I could think of is that maybe I didn't have the ASA set correctly, or maybe I don't know how to meter. when i was using the gray card, I'd hold it up about 8-12 inches in front of the meter eye. In the manual it says the "exposure meter acceptance angle is 40 degrees," so "it is possible to measure the princial subject without being hindered by excessive light." I'm not sure what that means, but I'm wondering if that angle means I shouldn't hold a gray card directly in front of it, but more in front of the lens itself. Any ideas or insight on how best to meter?
The other thing is with the advance lever. Natually, after the shutter fires, I can't fire again till I advance the film. But then I find that I can advance and advance and advance, probably until I reach the end of the roll. Sometimes I forget, and advance it, and I'll develop a roll with a lot of unexposed gaps in it. Is this normal?
as always, insights and tips are super-appreciated.
-Rick, yet another new member, with slight GAS too.
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Hi Rick, and sorry to hear of your GAS problems... 
But congrats on getting your camera back!
I have used a Canon Vt but have never owned one of this family of RF cameras. So perhaps there's a camera-specific reason why your film advance is acting like that. Something is wrong, there, and I'm very surprised it is like that straight back from Essex. It wouldn't be the rewind-release button accidentally pressed, because that would have the opposite effect (disengaging the drive sprockets), but it could conceivably be something as simple as that, specific to that camera. Or it might need to go back to Essex.
The metering question has I think a fairly straightforward answer. The point about using a grey card is that the card has to have the same light falling on it as the subject. If it doesn't, then it's fruitless, and I suspect this is the problem... Perhaps you hold the grey card angled to reflect the sunlight toward the meter (and that's what needs to "see" the card, not the lens)? That could make the card appear brighter than it should be, and give underexposure on the subject. It'd also be easy to get overexposure if you held the card vertically and close so it's shaded by you and the camera.
Probably the best use of the grey card is to set it next to the subject and back away as far as you can while still keeping the whole acceptance angle of the meter within the card borders. Easier with a spot meter. Easiest (and my choice) is to dump the awkwardly large card and use an incident meter instead!
But the most common compromize is to try to meter an area of the scene (without the card) that is representative of the whole and well-balanced as to average light/dark areas. This is what I do when using a camera's own meter; catch a reading off a balanced area, make the manual setting or lock the AE reading, recompose and shoot.
As another thought, you can improvise a way to convert your camera meter into an incident meter... A common white styrofoam disposable cup can be placed over the camera meter. The meter then reads the light diffused and transmitted through the cup. The camera should be pointed back away from the subject toward the position from which you'll shoot the picture... or at least the cup should "see" the same light as the subject.
You could even try several exposures of each scene using different metering methods, keeping notes, and then see which of them gives you the best results.
But congrats on getting your camera back!I have used a Canon Vt but have never owned one of this family of RF cameras. So perhaps there's a camera-specific reason why your film advance is acting like that. Something is wrong, there, and I'm very surprised it is like that straight back from Essex. It wouldn't be the rewind-release button accidentally pressed, because that would have the opposite effect (disengaging the drive sprockets), but it could conceivably be something as simple as that, specific to that camera. Or it might need to go back to Essex.
The metering question has I think a fairly straightforward answer. The point about using a grey card is that the card has to have the same light falling on it as the subject. If it doesn't, then it's fruitless, and I suspect this is the problem... Perhaps you hold the grey card angled to reflect the sunlight toward the meter (and that's what needs to "see" the card, not the lens)? That could make the card appear brighter than it should be, and give underexposure on the subject. It'd also be easy to get overexposure if you held the card vertically and close so it's shaded by you and the camera.
Probably the best use of the grey card is to set it next to the subject and back away as far as you can while still keeping the whole acceptance angle of the meter within the card borders. Easier with a spot meter. Easiest (and my choice) is to dump the awkwardly large card and use an incident meter instead!
But the most common compromize is to try to meter an area of the scene (without the card) that is representative of the whole and well-balanced as to average light/dark areas. This is what I do when using a camera's own meter; catch a reading off a balanced area, make the manual setting or lock the AE reading, recompose and shoot.
As another thought, you can improvise a way to convert your camera meter into an incident meter... A common white styrofoam disposable cup can be placed over the camera meter. The meter then reads the light diffused and transmitted through the cup. The camera should be pointed back away from the subject toward the position from which you'll shoot the picture... or at least the cup should "see" the same light as the subject.
You could even try several exposures of each scene using different metering methods, keeping notes, and then see which of them gives you the best results.
jlw
Rangefinder camera pedant
stet said:
(1) Glad you're liking your 7s, but (2) no, that's not normal. The film advance should take one stroke, and then lock until you've taken another picture.
Check that you've got the advance/rewind control (ring around the shutter release button) set to the advance position, which is all the way clockwise, past the red dot. There's a definite stop when you've turned it far enough; no need to force it. If you DON'T have the control turned all the way to the advance position, the camera can behave the way you've described.
If the control is in the correct position and the lever still doesn't lock after advancing the film, then Essex made a (minor) screwup and you should shoot it back to them to have it fixed under your repair warranty. I suspect it'll only take a small adjustment. But remind them what happened with your shipping last time, and tell them to BE CAREFUL!!!
Good luck and have fun...
gustav[] pEña
gustav[] pEña
Great Story! Enjoy your fathers camera, its a great gift. I wis I had my fathers camera.
Well, if you are ever going to buy another body do not buy a SLR its better to have a second body back up (leica, bessa) and use the same lenses. I hate to own to much equipment, to many uncompatibles lenses and bodys. Keep it simple, Keep it rangefinder.
Happy shooting!
harry01562
Registered semi-lurker
Great news on your 7s!
Great news on your 7s!
Very glad that after semi-normal foulups (they happen to all of us) the camera is a jewel. As someone said before, the advance is not functioning normally, but isn't a major problem. Essex should fix it easily under their repair warranty.
Also happy the lens is performing. You should also love the pancake, if you are into wides, especially. I don't own any, but do have the Canon 35/2, and it's superb. I've also read very good reviews about the pancake, which is now discontinued and probably destined to be a premium item.
We'll keep our collective fingers crossed that everything works out to the finish for you. I'm personally glad you kept the camera, as it's a favorite of mine, also.
Harry
Great news on your 7s!
Very glad that after semi-normal foulups (they happen to all of us) the camera is a jewel. As someone said before, the advance is not functioning normally, but isn't a major problem. Essex should fix it easily under their repair warranty.
Also happy the lens is performing. You should also love the pancake, if you are into wides, especially. I don't own any, but do have the Canon 35/2, and it's superb. I've also read very good reviews about the pancake, which is now discontinued and probably destined to be a premium item.
We'll keep our collective fingers crossed that everything works out to the finish for you. I'm personally glad you kept the camera, as it's a favorite of mine, also.
Harry
stet
lurker.
Today I got a chance to go out and compare meter readings with the gray card, 7s and the Minolta XG-M, and the readings were coming out identical. I checked them in bright sun, in the shade of a building, on a cement base of a lamppost from front-, back- and slightly different sidelightings. The only differences were when I was in the shade of a building and the backlit lamppost -- until I turned the 7s meter to high-sensitivity. I now have two suspicions for that overexposed roll: My girlfriend says that I might have picked up a roll of her film that went through a heavy X-ray at the airport. The other is that the manual says to put the lens cap on when rewinding. Does the shutter open when rewinding? I remember rewinding that film outside, and I doubt I did that.
thanks, Doug, for the metering tips. I played with the gray card more, and noticed how tilting it affected the readings. I guess I may have done that, too, or tilted the camera trying to look at the meter (it's on top, not TTL). I wanted to try the foam cup and incident metering, but in my pre-cup haze accidentally bought from the stand with a dark brown custom print.
I played with the advance lever, too, and I'm mistaken. The lever does lock after firing and advancing. The trick is that I've been using the shutter lock button, and when that's on, I can advance repeatedly. Sometimes I'd forget the lock was on, compose and not get the shutter to go, then advance, and advance, and ... oh, unlock it. This makes sense with what jlw said, so I guess that's normal? If not, and if this is the only instance of it doing that, I'm tempted to work around it rather than send it back. Or at least wait till after class ends (the repair warranty is six months).
Overall, though, I am having a lot of fun. Not making too many pretty pictures, but learning and having fun.
thanks, Doug, for the metering tips. I played with the gray card more, and noticed how tilting it affected the readings. I guess I may have done that, too, or tilted the camera trying to look at the meter (it's on top, not TTL). I wanted to try the foam cup and incident metering, but in my pre-cup haze accidentally bought from the stand with a dark brown custom print.
I played with the advance lever, too, and I'm mistaken. The lever does lock after firing and advancing. The trick is that I've been using the shutter lock button, and when that's on, I can advance repeatedly. Sometimes I'd forget the lock was on, compose and not get the shutter to go, then advance, and advance, and ... oh, unlock it. This makes sense with what jlw said, so I guess that's normal? If not, and if this is the only instance of it doing that, I'm tempted to work around it rather than send it back. Or at least wait till after class ends (the repair warranty is six months).
Overall, though, I am having a lot of fun. Not making too many pretty pictures, but learning and having fun.
Hi-- that's as it should be, and is both reassuring and yet puzzling as it leaves the heavy underexposure unexplained.stet said:
Well, x-rays can cause an increase in base fog, reducing shadow detail (which is an effective loss of speed), while the negs would look plenty dense. This is a possible cause, I'd think.stet said:
On the lens cap issue, most RF cameras use a shutter that has an additional light trap, since light imaged by the lens is always illuminating the shutter. Those rarities that don't use this special shutter, such as the Yasuhara, call for applying the lens cap whenever not actively shooting. Rewinding doesn't have any effect on the shutter... Still, never hurts to use the lens cap when not shooting. Shots of the inside of the lens cap aren't very interesting, though...
That doesn't sound normal to me, in the absense of Canon RF experience. But this additional detail should help. I think JLW's information about the shutter lock sounds useful. Perhaps you're not rotating the lock all the way, or maybe there IS something wrong in the lock mechanism.stet said:
stet
lurker.
Doug said:
heh ... I'm still grappling with terms and the idea of dark negative/light print, and I had to read that line over and over again. Yeah, the negs are pretty dark, and the contact sheet is light, similar to the effects on this page (esp. the elephant and the bird statue)
http://www.kodak.com/global/en/service/tib/tib5201.shtml
I would guess (and hope) that that's what happened. There is no fog on the film, though, and the site doesn't address what happens if you pass an unexposed roll through the x-ray, then shoot it.
Shots of the inside of the lens cap aren't very interesting, though...
d'oh! I read about doing that on here, so I've beeen conscious of not doing it, but I just did this morning!
back alley
IMAGES
what shutter lock?
the 7s has a shutter lock?
joe
the 7s has a shutter lock?
joe
stet
lurker.
backalley photo said:
yeah, there's a movable ring around the shutter marked A(dvance) and R(ewind), and there's a red dot between. The red dot is a shutter lock. Of course, it'll also lock if you fire the shutter and don't cock the advance lever.
back alley
IMAGES
that's the lock for rewinding your film back into the casette when you finish the roll. like the button on the bottom of more modern cameras.
the camera does not have a shutter lock.
joe
the camera does not have a shutter lock.
joe
stet
lurker.
That's actually what the R setting is for (as well as going back for a double exposure). I guess this is uncommon, then? Becuase the lock is listed as an interesting quirk on photoethnography.com, and it's in the manual as an added safety device for when carrying the camera with the shutter cocked.
back alley
IMAGES
maybe it's different on the 7s but on the 7 & the p there is no shutter lock. that collar is for rewinding the film only. a to advance the film till the end of the roll and r for rewind, to get the film out of the camera.
unless, i'm missing something here. (entirely possible)
joe
unless, i'm missing something here. (entirely possible)
joe
back alley
IMAGES
doh!
i just looked at my broken 7 and damn if there isn't a red dot which is a shutter lock!
sorry for messing with your head.
i'm gonna take a nap now...
joe
i just looked at my broken 7 and damn if there isn't a red dot which is a shutter lock!
sorry for messing with your head.
i'm gonna take a nap now...
joe