Help: Developing in Rodinal and Scanning - Help me improve my workflow

[johannielscom]

Late to the party but I'll chime in, for what it's still worth.

On site:

• Expose the film half the box speed.
• Meter for the darkest part you still want detail in.
• To check exposure range, also meter for the brightest part, ususally the sky in landscapes: if there's more than 4 stops difference you either need a graduated filter, or return when the light is less bright...

Developing:

• Use Rodinal 1:100 stand development in the fridge: just use tap water, shake vigorously for 1 minute, leave alone in the fridge for 59 minutes.
  Make sure to fix with fresh fixer

Scanning:

• Use the flat VueScan file, no corrections there
• Use 16-bit software, I can really recommend Lightroom and you can try it for free for a month
• Adjust the curves to get decent mid-tones, not the contrast since that will get you darker and lighter but leave the mid-tones flat

Admittedly, the above approach gets me good images on medium format and bigger, but it should do the trick on 135 format too.

Rodinal was conceived in a time when stand development was the only way to develop so don't buy into the 'uneven development' story. Century-old plates don't all show uneven development and streaking etc. Trick is to keep the reaction down by keeping it cold and you'll be fine.

No matter what film and developing approach, use filters! I'm suprised nobody recommended using those, no landscape photographer should go without them imho.
Graduated filters are readily available and if you use the Cokin system, you can simply use the filters on multiple lenses if you only change the ring on the filter holder.

Using Fomapan and X-Tol is a very good alternative combo, quicker to use and no hour-long fridge hassle either.


Happy shooting!

 

[tyrone.s]

I personally abandoned Rodinal/Adonal (except for special circumstances) because I found the negatives to be too contrasty for my tastes with Ilford FP4 and/or Delta 100/400. I'm currently having better luck with Kodak HC110, Dil H, which is 1:63, 10min@68F with Delta 400 exposed at 200. I'm scanning to a Pacific Image PF120 medium format scanner using Vuescan and getting good results. Check out some of the latest on my Flickr page via the link below.

Thanks for the advice and links to your work. I'll definitely be looking to buy some HC-110 when I get into town next time. I'll give that a go as that will probably work better for me than mixing up D76.

 

[tyrone.s]

Late to the party but I'll chime in, for what it's still worth.

On site:

• Expose the film half the box speed.
• Meter for the darkest part you still want detail in.
• To check exposure range, also meter for the brightest part, ususally the sky in landscapes: if there's more than 4 stops difference you either need a graduated filter, or return when the light is less bright...

Developing:

• Use Rodinal 1:100 stand development in the fridge: just use tap water, shake vigorously for 1 minute, leave alone in the fridge for 59 minutes.
  Make sure to fix with fresh fixer

Scanning:

• Use the flat VueScan file, no corrections there
• Use 16-bit software, I can really recommend Lightroom and you can try it for free for a month
• Adjust the curves to get decent mid-tones, not the contrast since that will get you darker and lighter but leave the mid-tones flat

Admittedly, the above approach gets me good images on medium format and bigger, but it should do the trick on 135 format too.

Rodinal was conceived in a time when stand development was the only way to develop so don't buy into the 'uneven development' story. Century-old plates don't all show uneven development and streaking etc. Trick is to keep the reaction down by keeping it cold and you'll be fine.

No matter what film and developing approach, use filters! I'm suprised nobody recommended using those, no landscape photographer should go without them imho.
Graduated filters are readily available and if you use the Cokin system, you can simply use the filters on multiple lenses if you only change the ring on the filter holder.

Using Fomapan and X-Tol is a very good alternative combo, quicker to use and no hour-long fridge hassle either.


Happy shooting!

Thanks for the thoughtful advice. A couple of questions. I would have thought that the vigorous agitation would have caused grain, even with stand development. Is this not the case if the temperature is lower? Presumably the cold retards the vigour of the developing agent. So what does vigourous shaking mean - does this vary the effect much with stand dev in the fridge?

Yes I need to meter a bit more carefully I think, especially with the sort of scenes I'm starting to work with (previosusly more SLR work and close, detailed shots or shots of my kids).

I'll try to find some new developers when I go in town next time, so I'll add XTOL to the list if I end up getting the Fomapan. I think I need to have a think about which camera I use to do which photos. Filters and an SLR would be much better than a rangefinder with filters I think. Ditto Medium format would be better again.

At least taking photos and developing them is getting me out of the house and giving me (mostly) pleasant things to think about after a very bleak couple of years!

 

[johannielscom]

Thanks for the thoughtful advice. A couple of questions. I would have thought that the vigorous agitation would have caused grain, even with stand development. Is this not the case if the temperature is lower? Presumably the cold retards the vigour of the developing agent. So what does vigourous shaking mean - does this vary the effect much with stand dev in the fridge?

Yes I need to meter a bit more carefully I think, especially with the sort of scenes I'm starting to work with (previosusly more SLR work and close, detailed shots or shots of my kids).

I'll try to find some new developers when I go in town next time, so I'll add XTOL to the list if I end up getting the Fomapan. I think I need to have a think about which camera I use to do which photos. Filters and an SLR would be much better than a rangefinder with filters I think. Ditto Medium format would be better again.

At least taking photos and developing them is getting me out of the house and giving me (mostly) pleasant things to think about after a very bleak couple of years!

Happy to read photography is enriching to you! I had a few rather bleak years myself so I can relate.

The metering scheme I can wholeheartedly recommend, although you might have to tweak a bit with many days with bright overhead, we don't get that so much in Holland... See here for what the metering scheme gets you in color. Low contrast was a choice here, btw.

Starting with the (rather cold) tap water brings the reaction down, the vigorous shaking builds the initial contrast in the image, the slow developing in the fridge brings out the details. You should see me around the kitchen with the shaking, I look like Tom Cruise in Cocktail 😀 minus the lean stature 😀 😀

Just now hung 6 images in 4x5 to dry, Fomapan 200 in X-Tol 1:1. Fomapan, X-Tol and Talisker, what's not to like! 😉

 

[tyrone.s]

Starting with the (rather cold) tap water brings the reaction down, the vigorous shaking builds the initial contrast in the image, the slow developing in the fridge brings out the details. You should see me around the kitchen with the shaking, I look like Tom Cruise in Cocktail 😀 minus the lean stature 😀 😀

Thanks for clear Rodinal explanation and the Tom Cruise link, that made me laugh!

Clearly, when in the kitchen, it's not all crisp winter landscapes for you Hollanders! The bar scene is an indelible image for me now - Tom "Rodinal" Cruise. Clearly I don't need to worry at all about over-agitating. I'll head out and take some photos today and try a test roll using the chillaxed 'Hippy Hippy Shake stand dev methodology' 😀

Looking at your photos helps me see what you mean about the metering scheme Johan. Hmm, I think for too long I've been taking photos where either the camera does everything (Aperture priority, middle gray) and I have the headset of "Well, the person or object is the subject / focus of the composition, I won't worry about the exposure of the out of focus areas..." However with landscapes with lots of sky, everything is in focus so I can't have a couple of zones at either end blown out and / or underexposed because I've shot to the expose the middle (i.e. 18% gray) of the tonal range. Of course shooting in the middle of the day doesn't help. Even here in winter cloudy overcast is bright, but not as bright as winter snow.

 

[tyrone.s]

I was pleasantly surprised at how well the Maco Eagle came out at rated at 200ASA and processed in cold tap water with 1 minute of vigorous 'Cocktail' style agitation and then into the fridge for another 59 minutes. Shaking the developing tank Tom Cruise style is the only time I've ever laughed whilst developing. It was vigorous!

I was able to get quite tightly grained and low contrast negatives with pretty good detail. I scanned those to TIFF and post processed in Darktable using only curves and what darktable calls "Local contrast" (coarseness-contrast-detail sliders). I played with the curves many times and reset them until I started to get better mid-tones. I then exported from Darktable to jpeg and uploaded.

It was still overcast cloudy but a bit brighter at times and I had some flare problems shooting into the sun as I'd left the lens hood at home ... But overall I'm starting to feel that I'm on the road to getting better results.

I still need to think more when I'm metering though. I'm getting to like Darktable. It's quite a bit like Lightroom which I used from version 1.5 through versions 2 and 3. However I've lost all of those licenses. Darktable's still clearly a work in progress (i.e. no printing module in the current stable 1.6.x release) but it's stable and runs very fluidly as a 64 bit application on a Core i5 laptop with 6mb ram.

All the photos in this thread are taken within a 5 to 10 km radius of my home.


2015-07-07-0015 by BigDragon, on Flickr


2015-07-07-0014 by BigDragon, on Flickr


2015-07-07-0013 by BigDragon, on Flickr


2015-07-07-0009 by BigDragon, on Flickr