Help! Kiev 4 focus issue

[pangkievrange]

OK, from home now.
I checked the Kiev with the method you suggested pangk. It IS different from left to right. About 2-3 cm difference in focusing.

I did an evaluation of one of my kiev 4am at home. This kiev has the left half part of the patch at inifinity and the right half part is not (close to, not beyond the infinity). The way I suggest is not user friendly. I made a bit change. I put the camera on a tripod. I put a straight ruler on the table (or any other support object). I used a retractable ruler to ensure the camera is in parallel with the ruler. I used a piece of black card (colored) and stuck it to a soap box. I moved the soap box along the ruler. I set the rangefinder at 0.9m (the lens at 0.9m too). This is what I found: the patch showed a good uniformity in the 80% of the patch. On the extreme left side, the rangefinder will give 0.9m+1cm while the lens is still at 0.9m. I needed to move futher back the black card 1cm in order to see the images merges. On the extreme right, I needed to move forward the black card forward about 1cm to see the images merge.

My question for you: when I took the pictures above, did you take the image immediately after you focused on the subject that was out of the line. No further change in composition? If you did, you would change the focusing.

pangkievrange

 

[Pherdinand]

I took the image immediately. The camera was resting on a support, i focused and took the image.
Now that I've looked, it could be that also at infinity the images don't line up perfectly. I looked at a very bright but very thin series of lights very far (say 1-1.5 km) and it seems they don't exactly line up yet when the lens is stopped at infinity. I'm talking about the middle of the rf spot, again.
However this is in the opposite of the close-focus problem. With this logiuc, the rf set at 0.9m should result in a lens focusing in front of the subject (lens is too far from the film), and not behind...
Will check tonight with the sonnar 50/1.5 ...(it arrived today).

 

[Igor.Burshteyn]

On my kiev at closest distance there is 2cm difference if you focus by LEFT edge of rf patch (from when you focus by RIGHT edge). And I remember similar reports of other kiev/contax users, too. As a rule l ALWAYS focus according to the left edge - proven right on my kiev.

 

[JoeFriday]

one of my Kievs has that same exact problem.. which is why it's currently being used as a conversation piece only

 

[pangkievrange]

I took the image immediately. The camera was resting on a support, i focused and took the image.
Now that I've looked, it could be that also at infinity the images don't line up perfectly. I looked at a very bright but very thin series of lights very far (say 1-1.5 km) and it seems they don't exactly line up yet when the lens is stopped at infinity. I'm talking about the middle of the rf spot, again.
However this is in the opposite of the close-focus problem. With this logiuc, the rf set at 0.9m should result in a lens focusing in front of the subject (lens is too far from the film), and not behind...
Will check tonight with the sonnar 50/1.5 ...(it arrived today).

A correlation between infinity and 0.9m is poor based on my experience. Theorectically, if the image line is close to the object line (does not surpass), that will result in the situation you encountered and the extreme right side of the kiev 4am. In my case for kiev 4am (supposedly the middle range of the patch is perfect), the rangefinder measures the real distance of 0.9m-1cm on the extreme right side while the lens is at 0.9m and the rangefinder is at the 0.9m marker. If I shoot an image with the extreme right side, I'll make a sharp focus on a subject at 0.9m-1cm when the rangefinder and lens are at 0.9m (I would think the subject is at 0.9m (real distance is 0.9m-1cm) and the lens is really at 0.9m (real distance)). The image is blurred because of being at 0.9m-1cm (real distance) when somewhere at 0.9m (real distance) (you could think the distance is 0.9m+1cm based on the marker on the rangefinder) is sharp.


pangkievrange

 

[Pherdinand]

So i checked again. With the sonnar 50/1.5...
What i know now for sure is: The patch does not line up uniformly; if i check rf versus focus in filmgate, the right edge is okay, the left one is far off on CLOSE focus.
On far focus, the lens can be focused good, but the rf does not line up. On neither sides of the patch. Stops before infinity.
So, the misfocusing is consistent: in both cases the lensw focuses further than the rf shows...
How do I realign the rangefinder? Is it necessary to disengage the cogwheel on the rf mechanism from the focus helical and put it back in a different position, or is there a realignment screw somewhere?

PS: i tried previouslt to take the top shell off, but i could not... The meter block seems to be over the top cover partially. How do I do it? Do i have to remove the meter and all?

Thankyou🙂

 

[pangkievrange]

So i checked again. With the sonnar 50/1.5...
What i know now for sure is: The patch does not line up uniformly; if i check rf versus focus in filmgate, the right edge is okay, the left one is far off on CLOSE focus.
On far focus, the lens can be focused good, but the rf does not line up. On neither sides of the patch. Stops before infinity.
So, the misfocusing is consistent: in both cases the lensw focuses further than the rf shows...
How do I realign the rangefinder? Is it necessary to disengage the cogwheel on the rf mechanism from the focus helical and put it back in a different position, or is there a realignment screw somewhere?

PS: i tried previouslt to take the top shell off, but i could not... The meter block seems to be over the top cover partially. How do I do it? Do i have to remove the meter and all?

Thankyou🙂

The easy way to fix the rangefinder is to take off the front plate. Soak leatheratte to the left side of the top plate with alcohol under which there's a screw (check russ's site) and so glue will be loose. Take off the five screws and turn the focus wheel away from the infinity. At this point, you can pull it up to reveal the screws under the rangefinder or pull off the plate (it's up to you). Move the lens thing (rangefinder) to left to allow to close to or pass infinity. Adjust (move) it when the rangefinder is not at infinity!!!!!!!!!! After each adjustment( very slight move to left each time), move back the rangefinder to infinity to check the adjustment. Sometimes, the rangefinder can not be adjusted this way (this easy method). If you can't move the focus wheel after adjustment, don't force it beause the tip of the arm is onto something. There are 2 screws in the area (under top casting) for feeding spool and a screw on the right side in the area (under the top casting) for take-up spool. Slightly loosen these screws will help you take off the front plate.

pangkievrange

 

[Pherdinand]

Whew! I think I've solved it.
Thanks pangkievrange.
On russ' website, http://www3.telus.net/public/kaylalyn/adjust rangefinder.html , there's a dirty little trick to adjust a bit the rf setting: losening the two screws that hold it in place and moving the whole front lens a bit. Amazing how much it can matter! Seems now that my infinity aligns up nicely in the rf, and at 0.9 m both the lens and the rf is focused.

Time for real-life test with the sonnar!

 

[pangkievrange]

That's a good news. I checked 6 of my kieves. It looks like the left half patch at 0.9m is more consistent with the real distance of 0.9m. The right half patch at 0.9m really measures 0.9m plus1-3cm. The very kiev 4am I talked about before has some problem at 0.9m. I remembered that one guy in forum broke /jammed the rangefinder when he did what you did. He claimed he could fix the car but the damned kiev. He sold the broken kiev for parts to somebody in the end.

pangkievrange

 

[Mike Kovacs]

Yes, that is the best case scenario, only having to move the outer prism. What I find, is that its always a little frustrating though because it sometimes moves a little as you torque down the screws!

When this doesn't work, you have to pull the mount and sometimes even the rangefinder prism. Not a bad idea to take the top plate off and clean things up, especially the far right side of the long prism that is next to the light seal. Cleaning that surface usually brightens the rangefinder patch dramatically. Just don't ever drop that long prism or it will separate for sure!

 

[Pherdinand]

What I find, is that its always a little frustrating though because it sometimes moves a little as you torque down the screws!

It's true; in fact, i moved it to the correct position and when i re-tightened the screws it was out again. SO i had to losen it again and move a bit more than necessary to pre-compensate for that. It's fine now...