Pherdinand
the snow must go on
Hi.
Apparently, my Kiev 4 misfocuses - it backfocuses with about 3 cm (over an inch) when set to closest distance. It does that with both the jupi-8 and jupi-9 I have. I checked on real images and at f/2 it is clearly visible. Will attach some photos later today.
In the same time, the infinity focus is good! I checked with real images and also with the two-cameras-facing-each-other method.
How is this possible?
Since i wish to use the gear at full speed - even more, i've just bought a sonnar 50/1.5 for it! - this bothers me.
Any idea what I can do about it? Any similar experience?
Thanks
EDIT: see attached photos. First is w the jupi-8 50mm, second jupi-9 85mm, both at f/2.
Apparently, my Kiev 4 misfocuses - it backfocuses with about 3 cm (over an inch) when set to closest distance. It does that with both the jupi-8 and jupi-9 I have. I checked on real images and at f/2 it is clearly visible. Will attach some photos later today.
In the same time, the infinity focus is good! I checked with real images and also with the two-cameras-facing-each-other method.
How is this possible?
Since i wish to use the gear at full speed - even more, i've just bought a sonnar 50/1.5 for it! - this bothers me.
Any idea what I can do about it? Any similar experience?
Thanks
EDIT: see attached photos. First is w the jupi-8 50mm, second jupi-9 85mm, both at f/2.
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V
varjag
Guest
Try tightening the helical mount screws maybe? It could reduce the working distance just a notch that you need.
Gonna try that with mine as soon as I finish the current roll; I've found a similar problem. Maybe that's due to the disassembly when CLA was done on the camera.
Gonna try that with mine as soon as I finish the current roll; I've found a similar problem. Maybe that's due to the disassembly when CLA was done on the camera.
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
Thanks - but if i reduce the working aka lens to film distance more, than it will backfocus even more! OK, maybe i did not express myself clearly: I focus on an object at 1m, with the rf, and the lens focuses behind the object, to 1.03m .The closer I move the lens to the film, the further it will focus behind the rf indication.
(So...maybe it's overtightened?
)
(So...maybe it's overtightened?
)Mike Kovacs
Contax Connaisseur
How does infinity look in the rangefinder? Focus on something far away with good edge definition, e.g. a distant radio tower or the moon.
If its good, then it could be the mount needs to be re-shimmed. There should be metal shims under there and people frequently mess them up doing homebrew repairs. Not only should there be shims, but they have to be on the correct holes.
It could also be your lenses but that is less likely if you have two that are behaving the same way.
If its good, then it could be the mount needs to be re-shimmed. There should be metal shims under there and people frequently mess them up doing homebrew repairs. Not only should there be shims, but they have to be on the correct holes.
It could also be your lenses but that is less likely if you have two that are behaving the same way.
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
Mike, I tried infinity with the method you also describe on your pages - target in the film gate, looking w a long lens set to infinity on another camera. It looks good. Also, it looks good on the images (although more difficult to judge, maybe).
I indeed remember two shims under two out of five screws when I repaired my contax IIIa and remove the helical. Thanks! might be a solution...
EDIT: in the rf infinity looks good, images align up nicely both horiz. and vertically.
I indeed remember two shims under two out of five screws when I repaired my contax IIIa and remove the helical. Thanks! might be a solution...
EDIT: in the rf infinity looks good, images align up nicely both horiz. and vertically.
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Pherdinand
the snow must go on
Added two photos. The focus indicated by the rangefinder was on the bottom side of the domino pointed out by the toothpick that is out of the line.
Mike Kovacs
Contax Connaisseur
No you're talking about the lens' infinity setting. I'm talking about the rangefinder's infinity. They have to be in synch for everything to work.
Oh man, if you don't know which holes those shims came from, you have your work cut-out for you. I did this job on my main Contax II after my brother-in-law donated a very nice Starrett depth micrometer. You have to shim the 4 sides to within 1/1000 of an inch of the Zeiss specification, then double check the centre and all 4 corners with the "SLR collimator".
Oh man, if you don't know which holes those shims came from, you have your work cut-out for you. I did this job on my main Contax II after my brother-in-law donated a very nice Starrett depth micrometer. You have to shim the 4 sides to within 1/1000 of an inch of the Zeiss specification, then double check the centre and all 4 corners with the "SLR collimator".
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pangkievrange
Established
Pherdinand said:
First of all, check the rangefinder at infinity (a pole at 1 mile away) and uniformity across the patch. Also check uniformity across the patch at 0.9M with the camera without the camera moving at different angles. Most kieves do not have a good uniformity at infinity or 0.9M.
pangkievrange
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
It is not uniform. If it's overlapping at the bottom of the patch, it's not overlapping at the top. But the difference is very small. Usually i just check the middle.
At infinity, the overlap is good (in the middle of the patch).
Mike: That was referring to the Contax i repaired 6 months ago. Of course I wrote down which shim where should go like i wrote down every little detail.
With the Kiev i did NOT take the helical apart, only the back film casting to replace a broken ribbon.
Fact is: at infinity it focuses good; at close focus it's not where it should be.
At infinity, the overlap is good (in the middle of the patch).
Mike: That was referring to the Contax i repaired 6 months ago. Of course I wrote down which shim where should go
like i wrote down every little detail.With the Kiev i did NOT take the helical apart, only the back film casting to replace a broken ribbon.
Fact is: at infinity it focuses good; at close focus it's not where it should be.
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
By the way, what's the easiest way to align the rf of a Kiev 4?
pangkievrange
Established
Pherdinand said:It is not uniform. If it's overlapping at the bottom of the patch, it's not overlapping at the top. But the difference is very small. Usually i just check the middle.
At infinity, the overlap is good (in the middle of the patch).
Mike: That was referring to the Contax i repaired 6 months ago. Of course I wrote down which shim where should go
With the Kiev i did NOT take the helical apart, only the back film casting to replace a broken ribbon.
Fact is: at infinity it focuses good; at close focus it's not where it should be.
What is the difference between kind of extreme left side and kind of extrem right side of the patch? The difference may cover 3cm.
pangkievrange
pangkievrange
Established
pangkievrange said:
What I talked about is at 0.9m.
pangkievrange
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
pangkievrange: Don't know that, have to check when I get home. Could indeed be the case. But i always (tried to) used the middle of the patch.
pangkievrange
Established
pangkievrange said:
Draw a straight line and move the camera along the line in respect to a target (no change in the distance of 0.9M or close to). Inifinity and 0.9m are the extrems that need to be taken be care of. You can get by with anything in between more or less.
pangkievrange
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
OK - say that's the case. What to do then?
thanks alot both of you!
thanks alot both of you!
Mike Kovacs
Contax Connaisseur
Good question about what to do if the patch doesn't align evenly! I have no idea. I would think this is one of those problems related to decementing of the moving prisms, perhaps recemented incorrectly?
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
Mike Kovacs said:
OH NOoo!!!
Well, i guess i will have to focus on the nose of the people when shooting in low light, LOL. I'll take it as a challenge.
pangkievrange
Established
Pherdinand said:OH NOoo!!!
Well, i guess i will have to focus on the nose of the people when shooting in low light, LOL. I'll take it as a challenge.
I think that this has something to with the position/direction of the whole rangefinder thing (convex, concave plano lenses terminology borrowed from Russ's site). Very touch adjustment. Away from infinity and 0.9M, the uniformity is generally good. A uniformity at infinity does not guarrantee a uniformity at 0.9m.
pangkievrange (if half the patch is at infinity, he'll be happy)
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
However, it's still the problem that using the middle, it focuses off at close distances.
With the Sonnar 50/1.5 on the horizon, i really wish i could do stg about this.
With the Sonnar 50/1.5 on the horizon, i really wish i could do stg about this.
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
OK, from home now.
I checked the Kiev with the method you suggested pangk. It IS different from left to right. About 2-3 cm difference in focusing.
I checked the Kiev with the method you suggested pangk. It IS different from left to right. About 2-3 cm difference in focusing.