[Help] M8 or R-D1, and Lens

[aigts]

I am in the process of switching from DSLR to digital Rangefinder and would like to ask you for your opinion. I would like to choose one (1) camera and one (1) lens to start.

Camera body
1. Leica M8
2. Epson R-D1

Lenses:
1. Nokton 35mm 1.2
2. Nokton 50mm 1.1
3. Nokton 40mm 1.4
4. Summicron 40mm f/2

My goals are:
1. Sharp wide open
2. Excellent bokeh (out of focus rendering)
3. Shallow DOF

Thanks in advance for the help and if you have other recommendations, please let me know.

 

[bo_lorentzen]

it gotta be a M8.

Lens... ahhh the 35 1.2 is a big one but good. and it give you the fov of a 50mm.

The 50mm 1.1 is really a short tele on the M8, so that might be a bit limiting.

Personally I would also take a close look at the 35mm 1.4 - it is very compact, light and sharp wide open.


Bo

www.bophoto.typepad.com

 

[aigts]

Thanks for your input, JSU and bo_lorentzen.

The 35/1.2 is out of my price range so I am not considering it at this time. Between the Nokton 35/1.2 and 50/1.1, which one produces better bokeh? Also, how is the Summicron 40/2 compared to the Noktons? I like the size of the Cron but it is slower.

I appreciate the help.

 

[back alley]

i voted with my wallet and bought 2 rd1s instead of 1 m8.
if i were to choose only 2 lenses i would go for the cv 15 and the cv 40. they seem made for the rd1.
one camera and one lens and i would probably go for a 28. the cv 28/1.9 if i wanted a fast lens.

 

[menos]

I also would go with a R-D1 (basically, I did).
With the lenses though, it is hard to decide on a budget.
I loved the 35mm on the R-D1 but lately got a 28mm f2, which seems to fit me even better. These are all expensive Leica lenses, but people seem to like the Leica 35 Cron pre ASPH a lot.

Leica does also makes the less expensive 28 f2.8 ASPH, which is highly regarded.

What I do not recommend, is slapping a heavy, Nokton on the R-D1, as this light body is not so well balanced this way.

I use the Leica 50 Lux quite a bit on the R-D1 and it really doesn't operate so nice as a 35 Cron or a light CV lens.

I would not limit myself only to a 50mm on the R-D1 as it really is pretty long.
The 35 or even 28 feels like the perfect focal length to me (35mm, being displayed better min the x1 rangefinder).

I see also, that I really have not to shoot as open as f1.4 or more with a rangefinder as with a DSLR. I feel more comfortable with a lighter, smaller f2 lens on the R-D1 than with say a 50 Nokton.

A 28 or 35mm lens is easily shot at 1/15 or even 1/8 with the R-D1.

 

[Keith]

M8 & 35/1.2

This is the closest thing to a 35mm full frame 50mm field of view in your potential combinations. The Leica may also have the better support as time goes on.

I have both the M8.2 and the 35/1.2 and they are my essential low light combination. The Leica files are excellent up through ISO 640 for color and B&W works through 1250 and the CV 35/1.2 is an amazing lens. It is bigger than my favorite 35 which is the v.4 Summicron but the CV's f-1.2 aperture is completely usable and very nice to have on the M8.2.

That's a killer combination and one the Epson can't even come close to matching with any lens you put on it! My M8 gets used almost solely with the 35mm f1.2 Nokton on it and has since I bought it.

Not to mention 10 megapixel verses 6 megapixel!

 

[Krosya]

That's a killer combination and one the Epson can't even come close to matching with any lens you put on it! My M8 gets used almost solely with the 35mm f1.2 Nokton on it and has since I bought it.

Not to mention 10 megapixel verses 6 megapixel!

I was under impression that Epson does better at higher ISO than m8? As far as "comes close" or not - well, Epson is pretty impressive, I think and in most cases one couldnt tell a difference. The only reason NOT to go for Epson is - it *may* be harder to service it than Leica.

 

[Krosya]

To answer OP's question - out of all the lenses listed(and many not listed) pretty much nothing come close to CV 35/1.2 when it comes to bokeh. It's one of the best out there. Simple as that.

 

[Keith]

I think and in most cases one couldnt tell a difference. .

I was under impression that Epson does better at higher ISO than m8?

Marginally IMO but the high ISO examples I've seen posted looked pretty flat to me.


As far as "comes close" or not - well, Epson is pretty impressive

Impressive or not to get a 50mm or less pespective with the Epson you're going to be using lenses that struggle for speed.


The only reason NOT to go for Epson is - it *may* be harder to service it than Leica

To say that this is the "only" reason not to go for the Epson is stretching it a little IMO.

🙂

 

[pagpow]

Can't help with the Leica from experience; I have an RD-1. The Nokton 40 1.4 lives on it, generally used at f2 because I like it better at f2, but that is no loss compared to a Summicron which only opens up to f2.

Gives you $$ room to maneuver if you want to add a lens as per Back Alley or later change camera.

 

[pagpow]

you might also check this thread:

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=84083

 

[aigts]

Thank you all for the suggestions!

After reading your replies, I still cannot make up my mind as to which camera to get. But, I am leaning towards the 35/1.2 and 40/1.4 for the lens choice.

Feel free to share any samples or user feedback regarding these two lenses. Thanks.

 

[macfiend]

I shoot with both the 50/1.1 and the 35/1.2 on my M8 and love both lenses.
I've never shot with an R-D1 so I can't help you there but I will say this - If I were to only get one lens, I would likely go with my 28/2 (not on your list) as it is closer to a 35 on the M8. My personal preference is that both the 35 and 50 on the M8 would be too limiting for me if I only had the one lens.

 

[danielnorton]

I shoot with an RD-1s and a ZM 50/2 Planar, this combination is amazing. I'd rather have the Planar than any of the CV lenses (I've owned a few and they are great, but the way the Zeiss Draws is amazing) so if price is an issue I would get the RD-1 for sure, if you can swing the Planar and the M8 that might also be a kick A$$ combo and I do plan on adding an M8 to my kit soon.

 

[menos]

Oh and there is the Zeiss 25 f2, which is one other fantastic lens, some people love on their M8.

Again - a f2 aperture really is not slow on a rangefinder camera.

 

[back alley]

25/2.8, fantastic lens.

 

[aigts]

Thanks for the lens suggestions, guys.

The size of 40/1.4 really appeals to me. Does the 40mm focal length create problems with the frameline (on M8 and R-D1)? Is 35/1.4 a better choice?

 

[snausages]

The 35 1.2 on the RD1 delivers the most beautiful results of any lens I've tried on it. But I find it too heavy and poorly balanced on the light RD1 frame to be an all day walk-around combo. For that I use the tiny Canon 35 2.0 ltm and it's perfect. I've never used an M8, but the RD1 will do nothing to prevent you from taking great pictures.

 

[sevres_babylone]

The size of 40/1.4 really appeals to me. Does the 40mm focal length create problems with the frameline (on M8 and R-D1)? Is 35/1.4 a better choice?

On the R-D1, you manually set the framelines, so there is no problem setting the 35mm framelines which work best for it. My understanding is that on Leica, the 40mm calls up the 50mm framelines, so that you have to tinker with the lens.

I normally use this lens at distances of 6 to 10 feet. I find that I have to be conscious that the framelines, particularly on the bottom and the left, are showing more than what I am getting. I would not consider this to be a deal-breaker.

I have not tried the Nokton 35 1.4, so I can't say how it compares (although obviously the frameline issue isn't there).

Earlier you said that you wanted a lens that was sharp wide open. I don't consider that to be the case with the Nokton 40mm. However, I am not always looking for clinical sharpness, and do like the lens at 1.4 and better at F2.

You won't find better examples of how the Nokton 40mm/R-D1 combination looks (or should look) than in this current thread:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84083

 

[aigts]

On the R-D1, you manually set the framelines, so there is no problem setting the 35mm framelines which work best for it. My understanding is that on Leica, the 40mm calls up the 50mm framelines, so that you have to tinker with the lens.

I normally use this lens at distances of 6 to 10 feet. I find that I have to be conscious that the framelines, particularly on the bottom and the left, are showing more than what I am getting. I would not consider this to be a deal-breaker.

I have not tried the Nokton 35 1.4, so I can't say how it compares (although obviously the frameline issue isn't there).

Earlier you said that you wanted a lens that was sharp wide open. I don't consider that to be the case with the Nokton 40mm. However, I am not always looking for clinical sharpness, and do like the lens at 1.4 and better at F2.

You won't find better examples of how the Nokton 40mm/R-D1 combination looks (or should look) than in this current thread:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84083

I read the thread and the pictures are beautiful. Thanks for the input on framelines, I will keep that in mind.