wyk_penguin
Well-known
I want:
Then there is one thing I can't decide upon: focal plane shutter or leaf shutter?
I was thinking focal plane shutter because of the ability to adapt various lenses to the body.
I am also unsure of just how important is the mirror lock up function. I come from the land of 135 SLR (and RF) and the lack of mirror lock up there doesn't seem to be a problem, but then I have heard that mirror slap is a BIG problem for medium format.
Ideas and suggestions are more than welcome.
- mirror up function (important. I want to use it for macro)
- cheap lens options (kind of rules out Rollei & Hassy)
- interchangeable backs
Then there is one thing I can't decide upon: focal plane shutter or leaf shutter?
I was thinking focal plane shutter because of the ability to adapt various lenses to the body.
I am also unsure of just how important is the mirror lock up function. I come from the land of 135 SLR (and RF) and the lack of mirror lock up there doesn't seem to be a problem, but then I have heard that mirror slap is a BIG problem for medium format.
Ideas and suggestions are more than welcome.
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ChrisN
Striving
Mamiya M645s
Cheap? yes
Interchangable lenses? yes
Mirror lock-up? yes
Interchangable backs? No. (But the bodies are so cheap you can buy a spare for less than the price of another back for anything else!)
Certainly the cheapest way into medium format, if you want to test the waters, and the lenses perform pretty reasonably. Here's a shot I took last week, with HP5+ and the 80/2.8 lens.
Cheap? yes
Interchangable lenses? yes
Mirror lock-up? yes
Interchangable backs? No. (But the bodies are so cheap you can buy a spare for less than the price of another back for anything else!)
Certainly the cheapest way into medium format, if you want to test the waters, and the lenses perform pretty reasonably. Here's a shot I took last week, with HP5+ and the 80/2.8 lens.
Attachments
Michiel Fokkema
Michiel Fokkema
Mamiya RB67.
Has all you want and is too cheap these days.
Get a body and a 140mm macro and maybe an extension ring. You'll be amazed what this set up can deliver.
Cheers,
Michiel Fokkema
Has all you want and is too cheap these days.
Get a body and a 140mm macro and maybe an extension ring. You'll be amazed what this set up can deliver.
Cheers,
Michiel Fokkema
jamiewakeham
Long time lurker
I use an Arax-modified Kiev-88. Ticks all your boxes (including the useful extra sizes in the backs - you can get 6x4.5 and 6x6). Lenses are cheap and you get access to the uttery wonderful 180/2.8 Sonnar. Unmodified Kievs have a poor reputation but I don't think I've ever herd of an Arax going wrong - I trust mine as my wedding group shots camera. If you want the reassurance of a new camera it's the way to go.
Having said that, with the price of used Bronicas where it is, were I in your position I'd be thinking about them...
Mirror slap is most problematic in the 1/10th region, give or take a stop or two - this is the time period the vibrations go on for. Much faster shutter speeds and the photo is over within one cycle of the mirror slap vibration so it doesn't have much impact. Much slower speeds and the mirror slap is only a small part of the overall exposure. Thus, mirror lock-up is important if you often shoot between, say, 1/4 and 1/30.
Cheers
Jamie
Having said that, with the price of used Bronicas where it is, were I in your position I'd be thinking about them...
Mirror slap is most problematic in the 1/10th region, give or take a stop or two - this is the time period the vibrations go on for. Much faster shutter speeds and the photo is over within one cycle of the mirror slap vibration so it doesn't have much impact. Much slower speeds and the mirror slap is only a small part of the overall exposure. Thus, mirror lock-up is important if you often shoot between, say, 1/4 and 1/30.
Cheers
Jamie
pau3
Well-known
A vote for Bronica SQA, if you like the square format.
It is certainly ugly, but it has mirror lock up
and it's cheap nowadays.
It is certainly ugly, but it has mirror lock up
and it's cheap nowadays.
Vickko
Veteran
Why are you ruling out Hasselblad? They are dirt cheap these days.
Vick
Vick
ChrisN
Striving
Vickko said:
Yep, one just went up in the classifieds - €1,200.00 for a body with two lenses. Is that "dirt cheap"?
I know, not fair comparing European prices with prices in North America.
In many parts of the world, Hasselblad are still well up there for pricing.oscroft
Veteran
It depends on what actual "medium" format you want. If 6x4.5 is sufficient, then I highly rate Bronica ETRSi gear - I've got one with a couple of lenses, and I think it satisfies all your requirements. And bodies, lenses and backs are selling very cheaply right now - on eBay UK I've seen bodies with standard 75mm lenses and metering prisms go for around £200, with 150mm lenses fetching £50-80 and 40mm lenses £100-150.
As for the idea of a focal plane shutter meaning you can adapt lenses (the Bronica has leaf shutters in the lenses), I think that's likely to be unrealistic - I think you pretty much have to stick with the lenses designed for the body. But ETR lenses are pretty cheap anyway.
If you want 6x6 and Hasselblads are too expensive, then I'd second the suggestion for a Bronica SQA - pretty much identical to the ETRSi, but just scaled up to a bigger format.
And if you want to go as big as 6x7, my vote would be for a Mamiya RB67 (and a very strong tripod).
As for the idea of a focal plane shutter meaning you can adapt lenses (the Bronica has leaf shutters in the lenses), I think that's likely to be unrealistic - I think you pretty much have to stick with the lenses designed for the body. But ETR lenses are pretty cheap anyway.
If you want 6x6 and Hasselblads are too expensive, then I'd second the suggestion for a Bronica SQA - pretty much identical to the ETRSi, but just scaled up to a bigger format.
And if you want to go as big as 6x7, my vote would be for a Mamiya RB67 (and a very strong tripod).
cmedin
Well-known
If you can swing the weight, the RB67 is an absolute bargain these days. Huge negs, great lenses, rotating back, leaf shutters, mirror lockup...
When talking about 645 and 6x6, remember that unless you compose and print for the square format, the 6x6 is just a 645 that wastes film.
The most portable and 35mm-like MF SLR I've used--if that's what you're looking for--was a 645E with the rapid wind grip.
As for Hassys being 'dirt cheap', I think the prices need to come down a little more to qualify for that term.
When talking about 645 and 6x6, remember that unless you compose and print for the square format, the 6x6 is just a 645 that wastes film.
The most portable and 35mm-like MF SLR I've used--if that's what you're looking for--was a 645E with the rapid wind grip.
As for Hassys being 'dirt cheap', I think the prices need to come down a little more to qualify for that term.
EmilGil
Well-known
You won't have to search too hard to find a Hasselblad 500C/M with a 80mm CT* f/2.8 for $500-600. You'll get MLU, exchangeable finder and film magazines. C/CT lenses are really cheap these days (and I mean it).
€1200 for a 500C/M + 80mm CT + 50mm CT is way overpriced if you ask me. With that budget, you can get 20 years younger CF lenses instead.
€1200 for a 500C/M + 80mm CT + 50mm CT is way overpriced if you ask me. With that budget, you can get 20 years younger CF lenses instead.
cmedin
Well-known
That is true, but you can also get an RB67 for around $200-250 with a 90/127, back, finder. And get bigger negs!
kmack
do your job, then let go
Can't argue with a Hassy as a great MF SLR,
However as mentioned the Bronica SQA (6x6) or Bronica ETRSi (645) are much cheaper and have some very good lenses. I have an older ETRS (no mirror lockup) and find it to be very usable hand held or on a tripod.
Vibration from the mirror could be a problem because of the really big mirrors. You can mitigate the problem if you use a really heavy tripod and head. I have a Berlebach tripod and a Majestic head that I use for my 5x7 field camera and 4x5 monorail. The Bronica is rock solid on that combo (the Majestic head is almost as heavy as the camera).
However as mentioned the Bronica SQA (6x6) or Bronica ETRSi (645) are much cheaper and have some very good lenses. I have an older ETRS (no mirror lockup) and find it to be very usable hand held or on a tripod.
Vibration from the mirror could be a problem because of the really big mirrors. You can mitigate the problem if you use a really heavy tripod and head. I have a Berlebach tripod and a Majestic head that I use for my 5x7 field camera and 4x5 monorail. The Bronica is rock solid on that combo (the Majestic head is almost as heavy as the camera).
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EmilGil
Well-known
I have no doubt the RB/RZ67's are competent cameras with great lenses but they are quite a bit bigger than a Hassy. I for one think the Hassies are big enough, I wouldn't want something 50% bigger and 80% heavier...
SolaresLarrave
My M5s need red dots!
I echo Cmedin's suggestion of a Mamiya 645e.
Have fun shopping!
Have fun shopping!
cmedin
Well-known
The only drawback is the lack of interchangable backs on it.
KoNickon
Nick Merritt
I think you need to decide on the format first. 645, 6x6, 6x7 each has its pluses and minuses. But I agree with ChrisN's recommendation of the Mamiya 645 (the ones from the 70s-80s, since they're really solid and have interchangeable finders). sitemistic's experience was different from what mine has been, though. They are truly inexpensive -- I've bought several bodies, each for under $100. And the lenses (which are excellent) similarly shouldn't cost over $200 each, and often much less, unless you're talking about some of the more exotic ones. Not interchangeable backs, it's true -- but as he says, get two bodies! Unlike the Hassy 500 or the RB67, these are battery-dependent.
I would like to try the Bronica ETRSi someday, since that does have a fine reputation. And if it also has interchangeable backs, that might well be worth checking out.
I would like to try the Bronica ETRSi someday, since that does have a fine reputation. And if it also has interchangeable backs, that might well be worth checking out.
MartinP
Veteran
Has anyone any comments on useability and reliability of the Bronica EC ?? Do more recent Bronica lenses fit one of the bayonet/screw mounts on the EC ? I ask because there is one going cheap(ish) here and I have been lookng for something to replace my deceased Mamiya C3 - so the same sort of question as the O.P..
W
wlewisiii
Guest
I'll also suggest the M645 series. Some really nice stuff out there for pennies if the 6x4.5 format works for you.
William
William
rxmd
May contain traces of nut
I find I don't use them all that often, much less than I thought I would before I got my medium format gear. YMMV.cmedin said:
Philipp
Monz
Monz
Another vote for the Mamiya M645, especially the 1000s. Very good value for both body and lenses. The quality is great and a three lens kit fits into a medium sized bag making it very transportable.
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Monz
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Monz