Help me choose my next camera

A nice jambalaya of advice here. I have always used OM SLRs, but in helping a friend-of-my-brother (longtime photographer become monk, goodbyephotography forever) dispose of his Nikons and glass, I saw and felt how the FE/FM(2) compared in haptics with my OMs.

I still have one FE and the 50/1.8e lens. Very compact, very reliable. If you would like to try it out, let me know--you'd just have to cover shipping.

But since no one has mentioned the Olympus Pen F, I will. Another delightful, compact, and ridiculously inexpensive system (except certain lenses). It is a better choice for the portrait-oriented composer, like certain 645 cameras, but since you like Olympus RF it deserves consideration. And if you decide to buy APS-C (Fuji X, Nex), the Pen lenses are nearly perfect matches. Have a look at Erik Von Straten's images in the Pen threads here if you want to know what it can do (compared to say, Erik's M/Barnack images in other threads).

Have fun, and follow the gleam--as Sir Alf Anyone-for-Tennyson wrote.
 
Hi,

Looking at your original list I'd vote for the XA as it compliments the others, small, neat and easy to use. Plus cheap to find and still people about happy to check and repair them. But I can't call it vintage. A good lens on it too.

Kiev 2/2a again a nice camera and there's always Oleg if it turns out so-so. Ex USSR cameras once dealt with by Oleg can be, and usually are, a pleasant surprise. I wouldn't bother about one with a meter. There's squillions of hand held meters out there.

FED 2 a very pleasant camera to use. And there's Oleg etc, as above. Add the Jupiter-8 or Industar-61 (to name a couple) and they are a delight.

Zorki 6 like the others, a pleasant camera to use and lever wind and opening back using a hinge.

Olympus OM's, depends on the model. No problem about the prism as they can be replaced. People love them, there's specialist repairers and brilliant lenses.

All of them have their little quirks but it just means a bit of thought. All of them are old (not vintage though) but they can all be repaired and I wouldn't let thoughts of repair put you off because no one can predict it.Trouble is there are people who expect elderly cameras to be perfect and they seldom are because they will usually be second-hand. There might just be one out there brand new and sealed in the box but I'd be very wary of it...

You just have to remember that second-hand is a bit of a gamble; I've bought Leicas from dealers and sent them back immediately I'd put the first film through them but they were repaired for free. I've bought ex USSR bodies and lenses off market stall for a pittance and been delighted and I've bought expensive (thousands) digitals and had to send stuff back and paid hundreds for the repairs...

The answer is to go into it with your eyes open and have a bit of fun.

Regards, David
 
PEN F is a joy to shoot. Buy a PEN FT with broken meter (very easy to find) or a PEN FV (rare).

My only problem with it is I find it hard to finish 72 shots within one month.

If by any chance you started to dislike the system (not likely) you can always sell the lenses at good prices - they are hot stuff for digital adapting to APSC and M4/3 mirrorless cameras.
 
Shooting a working Kiev 4 is fun. There are some nice lenses available.

If you swap to SLR a small one comes closest to the size of the range finders.
I love my Olympus OM-2n and also the Nikon FG. both are small and handy, perfect as a "have with" camera. That's also the reason why I preferred the 1:3,5 versions of the 28mm and 135mm Zuiko lens for the OM over their 1:2,8 pendants.

Hannes
 
Buy everything one by one and don't worry too much about which one. At the end of the day all the cameras you have said take pictures so go for the Nikon first, if you like it keep it until you fancy another camera, if you don't like it sell it and go for another one.

I sold my Olympus OM SLR kit and am currently trying out canon SLR's. Have a Canon AV-1 which is bottom of the range but I shoot aperture priority only when I use a film SLR so it fits my needs perfectly and saves me money for lenses.

Next on my list is a contax SLR. Or a Leica R.... maybe
 
If you want another body for the sake of having another body, pick up an M4-2 or M4-P. they're around $700, and will use all of your Canon glass (with an LTM-M adapter ring.) They have all of the good points of the Canon with an improved viewfinder/rangefinder. There's no meter to worry about and they're for all intents and purposes, bullet-proof. M4s are also down around $800 now. While they may have some of their own issues, you don't have to worry about foam deteriorating or not having meter batteries.

Leica isn't necessarily a "rabbit hole" nor is inherently expensive. I shot Canon Serenars on my M2 and M4-2 for nearly twenty years. Most of my lenses now are modern Voigtlander and '70s Leitz Canada lenses.
 
hepcat said:
...While they may have some of their own issues, you don't have to worry about foam deteriorating or not having meter batteries.

Leica isn't necessarily a "rabbit hole" nor is inherently expensive. I shot Canon Serenars on my M2 and M4-2 for nearly twenty years. Most of my lenses now are modern Voigtlander and '70s Leitz Canada lenses.
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Hi,

I agree with this but bitter experience (several models) tells me that Leica issues are expensive; for the cost of a usual repair etc (involving a complete strip down) I know my Pentax ME super and the 28, 50 and 85 f/2 lens could be bought and some film. Other outfits like the Minolta SLR and Tokina AT-X 28-85 zoom cost a pittance as they are overshadowed by more famous makes and models within the range.

Also a complete strip down and so on to bring my OM-1 back to the original specification (including a new OM10 prism) cost a fraction of a Leica repair. And Leica charged me for the estimate for the R5's repairs. The OM-1 work cost about UKP 17 more than the estimate. (That's about USD 23 ish.)

If you want the RF experience buy a FED or Zorki 1 and, if necessary, send it to Oleg for some of his magic. Total cost will be very little; the first film in it cost more than my FED 2 and Industar-61LD and that was before processing etc. BTW, I don't exactly trust what people say about so-called CLA's on auction site. Best to buy on looks - which can't be improved - and get Oleg to deal with the problems. That gives the best of both worlds.

I can't tell the difference in handling between my Leica Model II and the FED/Zorki 1; their prints come out a little better but that's due to the lens coating and the RF being more contrasty due to the tinting on the USSR models.

Regards, David
 
Bessa R and Nikon FM2n are very good in my view (I own and regularly use both).
Not too large, not heavy simple and reliable. The only drawback of the FM2n is the shutter sound, loud and like a sharp blow!
robert
 
I'm with Tim recommendation for F models. With 50mm pancake. Almost purchased by myself :)

OM10 would be easy to find cheaper and working one. 50 1.8 and 28 3.5 are cheap in price but good performers.
 
There are too many good options to list. It's more important to buy a nice example of whatever you buy, as most of these are old now.

Any camera that uses foam seals will probably need new ones.

Get a good example and try it. If you don't like it, sell it and try something else.

Try them all!

As far as Leica, buy right and be patient, buy one that someone else has already spent CLA money on. They aren't expensive, you're just parking money for a while. You'll get it back later when you sell, unless you abuse it.

There are almost no wrong answers. I say 'almost' because the Russian gear is a crap shoot. It's not pricey but can be a time sink. I don't have excess time so I stay clear of that stuff.
 
splitimageview said:
... I say 'almost' because the Russian gear is a crap shoot. It's not pricey but can be a time sink. I don't have excess time so I stay clear of that stuff.
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Hi,

I own several Leicas - bodies and lenses - and have been using them for decades; I also own several USSR made cameras & lenses and have been using them for long enough to have an opinion based on reality and looking at prints from them.

And I find it hard to agree with the quote because any secondhand camera can be rubbish; it depends on the previous owner and the seller...

Regards, David

PS And I have the bills and an estimate from Solms to prove it. One of my first (almost new) Leicas has been repaired three times now over a long, long period.
 
David Hughes said:
Hi,

I agree with this but bitter experience (several models) tells me that Leica issues are expensive; for the cost of a usual repair etc (involving a complete strip down)

If you want the RF experience buy a FED or Zorki 1 and, if necessary, send it to Oleg for some of his magic. Total cost will be very little; the first film in it cost more than my FED 2 and Industar-61LD and that was before processing etc.

I can't tell the difference in handling between my Leica Model II and the FED/Zorki 1; their prints come out a little better but that's due to the lens coating and the RF being more contrasty due to the tinting on the USSR models.

Regards, David
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David, I've had a number of Zorki 4k and Fed 5c bodies over the years and there's a WORLD of difference in use between them and ANY M body. While it's true that the do contain a rangefinder mechanism, any coincidence between them and an M body (or even a Bessa R body) is solely coincidental (no pun intended.)

I have a 1983 model M4-P that I bought for essentially nothing. (It came with a power winder, Summicron, and MR-4 meter that I sold pieced off, subsequently paying for the entire kit.) I recently took it in to my local repairman thinking it might be time for an overhaul (the "L" seal is still intact) and even though there's a little dust in the viewfinder, the shutterspeeds are spot-on. It needs nothing, 33 years hence.

A complete overhaul for an M body can run to $400 if it needs parts, but there are a LOT of them out there that, like mine, don't need anything and if exercised regularly likely won't.

So, yes, sometimes its a crap shoot in buying used, but if you buy a quality camera used to begin with, it has the potential of lasting you a lifetime if you choose to keep it and use it that long.
 
Pentax MX or K1000 with the tiny and wonderful SMC Pentax-M lenses. Maybe the pancake 2.8/40 and the 2/85. The colors will knock your hat in the creek!
 
The FM2 or FE2 are fine cameras. Relatively lightweight, reliable, etc. I would pass on the original FM or FE, though. The finders are very dark compared to the FM2 and FE2.
 
Thank all of you so much for the information. I didn't get a chance to respond to each of your suggestions these last two days, but I did read and take each one to heart while I made a decision.

I bought a couple of Nikon FE/FM bodies this morning from KEH.

I still have the idea of the Bessa r or M4 tucked away in the back of my mind. The Olympus OM line and Kiev model 2 almost won me over as well. But in the end, I got hooked on the style and features in the Nikon line. I chose the FE over the later models for a couple of reasons. I like the power switch for the meter better in the FE. The backward lens compatibility is a plus if I ever find some earlier glass. And the dim focusing screen is not an issue since the FM3A screens can be used in the FE with just a half stop of exposure compensation.

Thanks again everyone.
 
hepcat said:
David, I've had a number of Zorki 4k and Fed 5c bodies over the years and there's a WORLD of difference in use between them and ANY M body. While it's true that the do contain a rangefinder mechanism, any coincidence between them and an M body (or even a Bessa R body) is solely coincidental (no pun intended.)

I have a 1983 model M4-P that I bought for essentially nothing. (It came with a power winder, Summicron, and MR-4 meter that I sold pieced off, subsequently paying for the entire kit.) I recently took it in to my local repairman thinking it might be time for an overhaul (the "L" seal is still intact) and even though there's a little dust in the viewfinder, the shutterspeeds are spot-on. It needs nothing, 33 years hence.

A complete overhaul for an M body can run to $400 if it needs parts, but there are a LOT of them out there that, like mine, don't need anything and if exercised regularly likely won't.

So, yes, sometimes its a crap shoot in buying used, but if you buy a quality camera used to begin with, it has the potential of lasting you a lifetime if you choose to keep it and use it that long.
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Hi,

Well, you'd be right to say that if, and only if, I'd said the FEDs and Zorkis were the equivalent of a Leica M but I haven't.

What I said was that you could get the RF experience without breaking the bank and I suggested ways of doing it.

Your experience of the MP-4 is not, I think, typical. Most people pay serious money for them and when repairs are needed pay serious money for the repair.

As for quality, I've FEDs that are nearly 80 years old and some younger but still venerable by any standards. And they work well. And they don't cost a fortune to repair.

As for a 33 year old M series I think yours might just be the exception to the rule. I thought mine was but one day something minor went wrong; I got it repaired by one of the best who pointed out a few other problems and when the camera was returned it was a delight to use. The point being that I thought it was OK but it had deteriorated slowly and I'd not noticed until everything was sorted out.

As I've often said it's all a matter of luck and repairing them, FEDs or Leicas, is worth while. And I'll always think that you cannot condemn a maker after experiencing an elderly second-hand camera, or two, or three.

Regards, David
 
Lots of good advice so far I think.

If I were you, I would want to try a different shooting experience. Have you thought about a TLR or another medium format camera? Coming from the 35mm world like you, nothing made me learn more about composition than trying to compose pictures in square format (6x6). You will also get a huge boost in image quality...much more than you would get by going with any other 35mm camera. A nice and functional TLR can be bought for quite cheap.
 
The OM camera's can be rebuilt very reasonably...

The OM camera's can be rebuilt very reasonably...

BlackbirdKing said:
Ko.Fe. and Tim,

Nikon F series, hmmm? Interesting. I was looking at the OM series 1 and 2, but passed because of finding so many that had ruined prisms due to melting foam. SRT just didn't grab me. Same with Canon SLRs.

I'm going to read up more on the Nikons. Any suggestions for lenses? I have a lot of fixed glass already in the P line (35,50,85) and the 42mm of the Olympus. Would you suggest a short to medium zoom and a medium to long zoom to start with, or should I stick with fixed? I like fast, sharp glass so usually that means fixed, but maybe I should get some zoom lenses for something different.
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John Hermanson (zuiko.com) rebuilds OM 1 and up. He was rebuilding XA's and other Olympus camera's. I think he was an Olympus employee, but not sure. He now rebuilds only the OM series and on the OM he will convert the meter from the old "mercury" batteries. Some people use the Wein Cell batteries, but they are quite frustrating and Alkalines do not have a flat discharge curve so the metering is all over the place with time. John converts to the Silver Oxide.

His rebuild price is very reasonable and can be found on zuiko.com.

I had a lot of fun with the Kiev 2/2a that I had for a long time.

However, reliability is poor unless rebuilt by one of the three well known FSU repair people.

I was fortunate to have found an early Kiev.... The Kiev factory at the Kiev Arsenal in the Ukraine started building Kievs in about 1951. I had a 1955. The first two digits on the SN of a Kiev denotes the build year. The first few years (3-4) they were using original Contax parts and the assemblers had worked for Contax before the factory was dismantled in Germany and restored at the Kiev Arsenal. For that reason, fit and reliability was much better. There were periods when Quality Control produce CRAP Kievs. I was fortunate to have one built with original Contax parts and CLA'd just before I got it. Even then I had to babysit the shooting... but the pictures and the focus were phenomenal. I had a Jupiter 8 50mm f2 and that was the only lens I used on it.

You can buy $35 Kiev's all day long.... Don't do it... Plan to spend $100 to $150 for a refurbished Kiev. Forget the metered models. They are all pretty much shot.

I like the XA, but it's finicky on focus. I switched to the XA2 which is scale focus, has a hint of attractive vignette, and produces images equal to the XA.
Also costs a fraction of a good clean XA....$20 vs. $100.

Hope you find what you are looking for.
 
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