tomperson
Member
Hi all!
Ok, so the rangefinder bug has started itching on me. I'm doing a trip to Bolivia by the end of the year, and I'd love to carry a simple, no-frills, small film camera with me, mostly for B/W street shooting and such. I'll also carry a DSLR for landscapes, colour photography, etc. I have a few months to get accustomed to a new camera, and that's good.
So, my requirements are: small, light, simple, rugged, dependable, with full manual control, easy to operate. As cheap as possible.
I've been recently offered a Minolta Hi-Matic 9 for USD 60 and a Canonet QL19 for USD 92. Both are supposed to be in good "cosmetical" condition, but no seller knows for sure if the cameras actually work. Both can operate without batteries. Both feature fine, fast optics, parallax correction, can be operated in full manual mode. My budget is tight, so every penny counts. And since this will be my first rangefinder ever, it may well be that I end up not liking it at all.
The canonet is a classic, lots of people rage about it. Plus its the smaller/lighter of the two. On the other hand, the Hi-Matic has the faster lens (albeit a small difference, right?), its cheaper, and the lens is supposed to be really sharp.
Supposing both cameras actually worked fine, which one would you choose? Any of you have both cameras to comment?
Any advice will be most appreciated guys!
Ok, so the rangefinder bug has started itching on me. I'm doing a trip to Bolivia by the end of the year, and I'd love to carry a simple, no-frills, small film camera with me, mostly for B/W street shooting and such. I'll also carry a DSLR for landscapes, colour photography, etc. I have a few months to get accustomed to a new camera, and that's good.
So, my requirements are: small, light, simple, rugged, dependable, with full manual control, easy to operate. As cheap as possible.
I've been recently offered a Minolta Hi-Matic 9 for USD 60 and a Canonet QL19 for USD 92. Both are supposed to be in good "cosmetical" condition, but no seller knows for sure if the cameras actually work. Both can operate without batteries. Both feature fine, fast optics, parallax correction, can be operated in full manual mode. My budget is tight, so every penny counts. And since this will be my first rangefinder ever, it may well be that I end up not liking it at all.
The canonet is a classic, lots of people rage about it. Plus its the smaller/lighter of the two. On the other hand, the Hi-Matic has the faster lens (albeit a small difference, right?), its cheaper, and the lens is supposed to be really sharp.
Supposing both cameras actually worked fine, which one would you choose? Any of you have both cameras to comment?
Any advice will be most appreciated guys!
btgc
Veteran
that's nonsense.
Get them by 10 and put rest into CLA to be sure they will work.
Another bet is Yashica Lynx 5000 or Konica Auto S2.
Or even Yashica Electro 35 MC - well, it runs on silver oxyde battery (which lasts), much smaller than any from list above, AE can be trusted - perfect street tool. Scale focusing only, but surprisingly I don't miss it there. Costs less than burger.
Steve Bellayr
Veteran
IMHO those are high prices for cameras that may not be in perfect operational condition. A cla on any camera will run about $85 plus shipping. You are now almost $200 for a simple rangefinder. The Canon we speak of is the Canonet QL-17 G-III and the Hi-Matic 7s. (The 7sII is the gem.) Although I have never purchased from him Greg Weber is listing a Konica S2 already serviced for $75. Check his sight. He is the Konica expert.
usagisakana
Established
I paid $25 for my first 7s which was broken, and then $30 for my second, which I replaced the light seals on and has since been great. Those prices are way too high considering there are heaps on ebay for the $10-40 range that are in good nick.
eli griggs
Well-known
Of the two you mention, I'd go with the Minolta. I have this model, as well as the Yashica Electro and a Canonet QL17, which is smaller and faster than the QL19, and find it to be a great camera. The price seems high, based on what I've seen elsewhere, This camera is not as well known as the Minolta 7s so the price reflects lower demand, even though the camera is a faster upgrade of the 7s. I suggest you offer to buy it only after putting a few rolls through it on approval. Otherwise, look for a camera here, you have plenty of time before the new year and you have a good chance to find a good camera for less money.
Keep us informed on your hunt and results.
Cheers
Keep us informed on your hunt and results.
Cheers
tomperson
Member
Hi folks! Thanks for sharing your thoughts with me!
Maybe I should have mentioned that I'm NOT in the US or Europe, so buying the camera from abroad is not an option. Between shipping and taxes (which are ridiculously high here), a $25 camera will probably get me to USD 100 + easily, and I would not even have the option of testing the camera before actually buying. For the same reason, I don't have the wide availability of different cameras you enjoy, so please lets stick to discussing Minolta Hi-Matic 9 and Canonet GL19. Although I understand that there may be better options out there, they aren't readily available to me, so why bother.
Nevertheless, I'll take into consideration what you mention regarding price, so I'll ask the sellers to bring the price down.
The cameras I mentioned are listed on a local online auction site (called MercadoLibre), and I've already told the people selling it that I need to have it checked by a technician (probably from my local photography club) in case I get to buy the thing.
Eli, please let me know why you'd prefer the minolta?
Thanks again folks, this is my first post on this forum, and woa, I'm amazed at the amount of replies in such a short time span!
Maybe I should have mentioned that I'm NOT in the US or Europe, so buying the camera from abroad is not an option. Between shipping and taxes (which are ridiculously high here), a $25 camera will probably get me to USD 100 + easily, and I would not even have the option of testing the camera before actually buying. For the same reason, I don't have the wide availability of different cameras you enjoy, so please lets stick to discussing Minolta Hi-Matic 9 and Canonet GL19. Although I understand that there may be better options out there, they aren't readily available to me, so why bother.
Nevertheless, I'll take into consideration what you mention regarding price, so I'll ask the sellers to bring the price down.
The cameras I mentioned are listed on a local online auction site (called MercadoLibre), and I've already told the people selling it that I need to have it checked by a technician (probably from my local photography club) in case I get to buy the thing.
Eli, please let me know why you'd prefer the minolta?
Thanks again folks, this is my first post on this forum, and woa, I'm amazed at the amount of replies in such a short time span!
usagisakana
Established
Test the camera first if you can. However they will almost definitely need the light seals replaced, as they decay with age. A seller called interslice on ebay makes a great kit for about $12 USD, with shipping only a few dollars if memory serves me correctly.
tomperson
Member
Thanks for the tip usagisakana, i'll check what are my options locally, as i said buying from ebay is unfortunately too expensive for me. TAXES, TAXES and more...TAXES.
Steve Bellayr
Veteran
Given your predicament the best answer is condition! Before you buy check what batteries they use and the availability of batteries in your area. Good Luck.
SolaresLarrave
My M5s need red dots!
I'd go for the Canonet. The Minolta is not a bad camera, but it's not as intuitive as the Canonet.
However, ask whether it uses current batteries or mercury. Also, ask about the meter. The seals will need replacement, that's a given. Also, find out in the Minolta can be used in manual mode. I don't think this particular Canonet can, but then, I'm not absolutely sure.
Oh, the prices are, indeed, steep for this type of camera. However if that's all you're getting in availability... good luck!
However, ask whether it uses current batteries or mercury. Also, ask about the meter. The seals will need replacement, that's a given. Also, find out in the Minolta can be used in manual mode. I don't think this particular Canonet can, but then, I'm not absolutely sure.
Oh, the prices are, indeed, steep for this type of camera. However if that's all you're getting in availability... good luck!
f/stopblues
photo loner
BTW, the QL19 cannot be used fully manual. I saw you mentioned that as a requirement in the original post. A QL17, however, fits the bill.
pagpow
Well-known
have you taken a look at
http://www.cameraquest.com/classics.htm
where compact 35s are mentioned, model by model.
This might provide you with some feature and handling information you might find useful.
In bocca al lupo.
http://www.cameraquest.com/classics.htm
where compact 35s are mentioned, model by model.
This might provide you with some feature and handling information you might find useful.
In bocca al lupo.
camera.bear
Well-known
tomperson,
I have both the Hi-Matic 9 and the Canonet G-III QL17, a sibling of the last model of the QL19. I'm not sure which version of the QL19 you are refering to. To see the different versions, check out Canon's on-line museum at http://www.canon.com/camera-museum/
If it is either the New Canonet QL19 or the G-III QL19, I would chose it. If not I would chose the Hi-Matic 9. This of course is if the camera is in working order.
Also check out my short reviews of these cameras at http://www.wayneyoungphoto.com/vintagecameras.html
I have both the Hi-Matic 9 and the Canonet G-III QL17, a sibling of the last model of the QL19. I'm not sure which version of the QL19 you are refering to. To see the different versions, check out Canon's on-line museum at http://www.canon.com/camera-museum/
If it is either the New Canonet QL19 or the G-III QL19, I would chose it. If not I would chose the Hi-Matic 9. This of course is if the camera is in working order.
Also check out my short reviews of these cameras at http://www.wayneyoungphoto.com/vintagecameras.html
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R
ruben
Guest
There is an issue about which lens may be bettter, and another issue about the camera user friend features: I am against the Minolta Hi Matic 9 and favour the Canonet QL 19 because:
a) At the viewfinder, the info of the minolta is expressed in Exposure Values, the most traumatic way to confuse the photographer. The info at the Canonet, after you set or while changing shutter speed, is expressed in F/stops.
b) In Auto mode with the Canonet, You are in command of what combination you want. With the specific minolta in auto mode, you are enslaved to a specific "program" , deciding for you the aperture and speed combination.
c) While at the minolta viewfinder you have fixed parallax marks, at the canonet the whole brightline marks will move and compensate as you focus
d) I do love focusing levers (canonet)
e) Beware about the luminosity and contrast of the yellow patch in the Canonet you target. Or search RFF pages about "Brightening the yellow patch" - specially helpfull for Canonets. Minoltas may carry a brighter yellow patch.
However, all in all the Exposure Value scale at the Minolta viewfinder will make you to sorry the day you bought it.
Cheers,
Ruben
a) At the viewfinder, the info of the minolta is expressed in Exposure Values, the most traumatic way to confuse the photographer. The info at the Canonet, after you set or while changing shutter speed, is expressed in F/stops.
b) In Auto mode with the Canonet, You are in command of what combination you want. With the specific minolta in auto mode, you are enslaved to a specific "program" , deciding for you the aperture and speed combination.
c) While at the minolta viewfinder you have fixed parallax marks, at the canonet the whole brightline marks will move and compensate as you focus
d) I do love focusing levers (canonet)
e) Beware about the luminosity and contrast of the yellow patch in the Canonet you target. Or search RFF pages about "Brightening the yellow patch" - specially helpfull for Canonets. Minoltas may carry a brighter yellow patch.
However, all in all the Exposure Value scale at the Minolta viewfinder will make you to sorry the day you bought it.
Cheers,
Ruben
eli griggs
Well-known
tomperson, what I like about the Minolta is it has an excellent lens, several more shutter settings than the Canon, shutter and aperture settings/readings also in EV which can be changed together in one movement, keeping the same EV, a meter that can be turned off, rather than being forced to cover the lens to conserve the battery, a large clear viewfinder, solid, quality construction and much more extensive flash GN scale on bottom of the lens. I can shoot this in manual without running down the battery.
The yellow parallax correction lines in the viewfinder DO MOVE with the focus like the Canon.
The Minolta is larger than the Canon, about the size of the Yashica Electro and it has a well placed focusing tab on the bottom of the lens, rather than a lever on the left of the lens barrel, so it is easer to focus and shoot one handed. Both Cameras are limited to 500th sec shutter speed and 25-800 ASA. The Minolta 45mm lens uses 55 mm filters and the Canon 40mm lens uses 48mm glass.
My Minolta came with a very nice metal lens hood.
Both cameras are capable but I do like the Minolta better and more especially so at the prices you mentioned. If limited space or weight was a consideration, I might go with the Canon but for a single knock-around camera, I like the Minolta best.
Cheers
The yellow parallax correction lines in the viewfinder DO MOVE with the focus like the Canon.
The Minolta is larger than the Canon, about the size of the Yashica Electro and it has a well placed focusing tab on the bottom of the lens, rather than a lever on the left of the lens barrel, so it is easer to focus and shoot one handed. Both Cameras are limited to 500th sec shutter speed and 25-800 ASA. The Minolta 45mm lens uses 55 mm filters and the Canon 40mm lens uses 48mm glass.
My Minolta came with a very nice metal lens hood.
Both cameras are capable but I do like the Minolta better and more especially so at the prices you mentioned. If limited space or weight was a consideration, I might go with the Canon but for a single knock-around camera, I like the Minolta best.
Cheers
gb hill
Veteran
$92 is way to much for a Canon QL-19. The QL-17 GIII is the one you wan't. It's a much better camera. I don't know anything about the Minolta. A Yashica is a good camera also. Some believe it has a better lens than the Canonet.
tomperson
Member
camerabear:
I checked the pictures of the camera on the auction site. Its the "plain" QL19. I wonder why you would choose the Hi-Matic over the QL19 if its not one of the "newer" canonets?
gb hill
Apart from the slightly slower lens, what differences the QL19 from the QL17 GIII you mention? Anything really important?
eli griggs
Thanks for the info! The canonet has a 45mm lens, btw.
Ruben, could you please expand on the yellow patch issue? I had never heard of that before...Thanks for your thoughts on the camera....
eli griggs
Well-known
Tomperson, my mistake, I was thinking of the ql17, not ql19 when I wrote that.
Size-wise it looks to be about the same as the Hi-Matic and takes the same filter size, but the Minolta has a better lens.
Cheers
Size-wise it looks to be about the same as the Hi-Matic and takes the same filter size, but the Minolta has a better lens.
Cheers
camera.bear
Well-known
Tomperson,
Here are the reasons that I would pick the Hi-Matic 9 over the Older QL19.
1. Faster lens at 1.7
2. True Hot Shoe with Easy Flash which adusts the Aperture automatically based on focused distance once the flash's guide number has been set. Not available until New QL19.
3. Dispite what Ruben stated, Moving Parallax correcting frame lines. I got the camera out just to make sure.
4. True Auto Exposure is there if you want it, or
5. Metered Manual using the EV system which allows the choice of several shutter/aperture combinations at the meter's indicated EV value allowing you to achieve correct exposure but retain creative control
6. Film loading as easy as the Canonet Quick Load system and there is a film advance indicator as well. Not available until the G-III QL19.
7. Greater ISO range up to 800, not 400. 800 available on Newer QLs.
8. Ratcheted film advance lever, not available on any Canonet.
Almost forgot that
9. The meter can be turned off by setting the ASA selector to OFF. No switch on the Canonets, you must replace the lens cap to turn off the meter. I always use the lens cap, but this is just another choice that the Hi-Matic 9 allows the photographer to make.
As you can see, there are several reason to go with the Hi-Matic 9. If not, like I advised, hold out for one of the later Canonets.
Hope this all is useful.
Here are the reasons that I would pick the Hi-Matic 9 over the Older QL19.
1. Faster lens at 1.7
2. True Hot Shoe with Easy Flash which adusts the Aperture automatically based on focused distance once the flash's guide number has been set. Not available until New QL19.
3. Dispite what Ruben stated, Moving Parallax correcting frame lines. I got the camera out just to make sure.
4. True Auto Exposure is there if you want it, or
5. Metered Manual using the EV system which allows the choice of several shutter/aperture combinations at the meter's indicated EV value allowing you to achieve correct exposure but retain creative control
6. Film loading as easy as the Canonet Quick Load system and there is a film advance indicator as well. Not available until the G-III QL19.
7. Greater ISO range up to 800, not 400. 800 available on Newer QLs.
8. Ratcheted film advance lever, not available on any Canonet.
Almost forgot that
9. The meter can be turned off by setting the ASA selector to OFF. No switch on the Canonets, you must replace the lens cap to turn off the meter. I always use the lens cap, but this is just another choice that the Hi-Matic 9 allows the photographer to make.
As you can see, there are several reason to go with the Hi-Matic 9. If not, like I advised, hold out for one of the later Canonets.
Hope this all is useful.
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lorriman
Established
Facing a similar choice: how does the Minolta bokeh match up to the poor reputation of the Canonets?