Help: pyro-what?

[Twigs]

There is always too much information on just about anything on the internet, and I was a fool not to ask here first but totally confused myself out there... :bang:

I read about this developer that blocks development at dense (high light) areas on the negative and allow development at less dense areas (shadow details). Thus creates an illusion/apperance of a wider than usual dynamic range. (Did I even get this part right?)

A search on RFF (and in the RFF Gallery) came out with even more information than I needed to know but I've decided that I have to give it a shot.

I couldn't find an introductory website on this so I'm still confused as what it is really called - pyrocat-hd? 510-pyro? PMK-pyro?

Which developer of this nature is most suited for 35mm format, and what exactly can I expect from it?

Cheers,
Charleston

 

[traveller]

Hello Twigs,

I have been searching for some answers too and I found a good explanation here.

Because of it's toxicity I decided not to use is (my darkroom is my kitchen). When the mention gloves check out what kind, I think the nitril kind would be safe but check it out, and better go outside and wear a mask when mixing the developer. Pyro can be quite hard on your liver.

I decided to try out Tanol from Moersch (you can find a Data Sheet here if you are interestet. I don't know where to get this in US or Canada but JandC would be a good chance as they are a partner from Fotoimpex in Germany.

Hope this was a little bit of help

 

[Bryce]

Charleston-
Pyro based developers are something I haven't played with, but I think you've got the general idea. In addition to acting as a compensating developer, they are said to stain highlight areas,brownish I think, having a similar effect to a built in VC filter in the highlights only. They're covered in Ansel Adam's book "The Negative". Also, Pyro developers usually cost film speed, by the way.
Have you played with Rodinal? The effect of using stand or water bath development with Rodinal is similar to Pyro according to "The Negative".

 

[Simon Larbalestier]

I work with the PMK Pyro and the Pyrocat HD both give subtlely different results
PMK pyro tends to stain the negs green the Pyrocat HD; brown. I've had excellent results with both on 35 and 120 films. Times can be quite long and agitation is every 15, 20 or 30 secs depending upon dilution and which approach you prefer.
The results print superbly on the Leitz enlargers and well as the old cold cathode Devere enlargers. The tonal range is exceptional. Very useful when making lith prints.

Oddly enough when scanning them on my Nikon 5000 ED despite using vuescan the grain is greatly enhanced - not so when scanned on the Epson V750
i'm sure there are good reasons for this but i've not had the time to figure them out yet.....

Try Ed Buffoloe's site http://www.unblinkingeye.com this has a lot of info and links and is a good starting point. Thre is also Gorden Hutchin's The Book of Pyro" which is an excellent read.

 

[kmack]

In addition to staining developers you may want to try HC110 at high dilutions (1:100, 1:119) and semi-stand development (1 or 2 inversions every 3 min).
See Covingtons Unofficial HC110 page for more details

 

[Todd.Hanz]

Yes, Pyro is dangerous to your health if inhaled or bathed in, but so is D:76, Xtol and most fixer. You have to use some common sense when mixing chemicals.

I use 510 Pyro, ceated by Jay De Fehr, I actually stumbled upon it accidentally and like it alot. I shoot Acros 100 and Ilford Pan F+ 50 at full box speeds, development time is 6-6.5 min (not very long). The stain is an olive green/ brownish on those films, I scan all my negatives with great results, I don't know how it would work under an enlarger but reports are good. It's a fine grain developer.

Once mixed, it is similar to using HC 110 or rodinal, you just add 1ml/100 ml of water, pretty simple. here is a link written by Jay describing how to mix and use:
http://www.digitaltruth.com/techdata/article-stainingdev.php

a couple scans using it and Pan F + (120 film):
http://apeture.my-expressions.com/archives/7477_1730056827/182178

http://apeture.my-expressions.com/archives/7477_1730056827/181749

good luck,
Todd

 

[gregg]

I second the extended development time with HC-110 recommendation.

Having used PMK Pyro in 8x10 and 120 formats for several years I recently switched to HC-110 Dilution F (1:79) and extending the Dilution B times by about 2.5x as recommended by Covington.

Foma 200 sheet film (HC-110, 1:79, 13 minutes) shows the same density range under studio lighting with both developers – plus I can shoot at rated film speed instead of ½ rated. I shoot mostly portraits so glare reduction and shadow detail are important developer features. In my experience prints using these two developers are indistinguishable.

PLUS – my results printing or scanning 120 format Foma 200 developed in PMK were grainy. Not so with HC-110. Hopefully Kodak keeps their chemical business open… Having recently completed this film/developer test I’m not looking forward to doing it again any time soon! (Although “510 Pyro” sounds intriguing.)

My “real-world” HC-110 dev tests for the other Foma films that I use in 35mm are as follows: ASA100, 1:79, 10 minutes – ASA400, 1:63, 13 minutes. Your mileage may vary.

 

[Twigs]

Thank you very much for all your input, RFF simply rocks!

Looks like HC-110 is easier to work with.

The reason why I'm looking for a deveopler that gives better contrast control is that my results with Ilfosol S are quite contrasty - highlights are often blown and shadows look really dense. I'm gonna try a higher dilution (I'm using 1+9 right now) and agitate less first and see if I get any significant improvements.

Should I just switch to HC-110 anyways?

 

[Bryce]

Twigs-
The property of a developer allowing contrast to be altered by dilution and agitation is called "compensation". As I've gathered things, not all developers can do it. Rodinal, HC110, and a few others are commonly called compensating developers, but I've never heard Ilfosol series developers described that way.
I'm not trying to discourage. I'm more curious than anything.
In my experience, Ilfosol S gives much finer grain than either Rodinal or HC110.
Let us all know what your results are!
By the way, what film(s) are you working with?

 

[oftheherd]

Yes, Pyro is dangerous to your health if inhaled or bathed in, but so is D:76, Xtol and most fixer. You have to use some common sense when mixing chemicals.

I use 510 Pyro, ceated by Jay De Fehr, I actually stumbled upon it accidentally and like it alot. I shoot Acros 100 and Ilford Pan F+ 50 at full box speeds, development time is 6-6.5 min (not very long). The stain is an olive green/ brownish on those films, I scan all my negatives with great results, I don't know how it would work under an enlarger but reports are good. It's a fine grain developer.

Once mixed, it is similar to using HC 110 or rodinal, you just add 1ml/100 ml of water, pretty simple. here is a link written by Jay describing how to mix and use:
http://www.digitaltruth.com/techdata/article-stainingdev.php

a couple scans using it and Pan F + (120 film):
http://apeture.my-expressions.com/archives/7477_1730056827/182178

http://apeture.my-expressions.com/archives/7477_1730056827/181749

good luck,
Todd

Beautiful photos. Thanks for sharing. I have often wanted to try pyro, and have a book on its use. But, alas, I have yet to do so. One of these days I will repair the constellation of pin holes in an 8x10 I have and try it. Perhaps in the mean time HC110 in 4x5?

 

[gregg]

Here are pictures with the two developers showing how close the results are. Pyro was mixed from Formulary liquid 1:2:100. HC-110 was mixed 1:79. Both films are FOMA 200 in 8x10 format. Printed on AGFA MCIII with a #3 filter. Paper developer is Ethol LPD 1:1 and both prints were toned with selenium. Studio lighting - the Pyro negative required an extra stop of exposure.

Pyro: http://www.sixview.com/slides/Austin-and-Josiah-lg.html

HC-110: http://www.sixview.com/slides/Jill-lg.html

Another great plus with using HC-110 - aside from less toxic and easier availability - is that it requires much less agitation to get even development. For both sheet and roll films Pyro requires nearly constant agitation. Not so bad when you are standing around the sink with your roll film tank - really a pain when you are standing in the dark rotating sheet film in trays for 16+ minutes... Just my $0.02.

 

[mongo141]

Yes, Pyro is dangerous to your health if inhaled or bathed in, but so is D:76, Xtol and most fixer. You have to use some common sense when mixing chemicals.

I use 510 Pyro, ceated by Jay De Fehr, I actually stumbled upon it accidentally and like it alot. I shoot Acros 100 and Ilford Pan F+ 50 at full box speeds, development time is 6-6.5 min (not very long). The stain is an olive green/ brownish on those films, I scan all my negatives with great results, I don't know how it would work under an enlarger but reports are good. It's a fine grain developer.

Once mixed, it is similar to using HC 110 or rodinal, you just add 1ml/100 ml of water, pretty simple. here is a link written by Jay describing how to mix and use:
http://www.digitaltruth.com/techdata/article-stainingdev.php

a couple scans using it and Pan F + (120 film):
http://apeture.my-expressions.com/archives/7477_1730056827/182178

http://apeture.my-expressions.com/archives/7477_1730056827/181749

good luck,
Todd

I second Todd"s post. I use 510 Pyro 99% of the time and love it and I have used about everything else on the market...Dave

 

[Xmas]

Hey you were correct and people did not slag you off... this is a friendly place

Rodinal has the advantage of storing for aeons (well decades then), the rule is never throw a part used bottle away, it is used diluted 1:100 for compensation, so if you buy a big bottle it will last a long time. It is useful even if you have shop around the corner - when your best developer runs dry on Sunday...

You should not need compensation unless you scene is high contract relative to the film you use. I take night and indoor shots.

If you dont use a stop bath but instead drain and fill the tank with strainght water and leave for 10-20 minuted you will push the compensation even more.

if you split e.g. a D23 mix then the second bath is an activator and has a more extreme effect to a 2nd water bath, hey even i dont do this but somepeople will...

Noel